[B-Greek] PLHRHS
Iver Larsen
iver_larsen at sil.org
Sun May 2 13:53:59 EDT 2004
> >I see no reason why PLHRHS should refer to AUTOU rather than
> DOXAN. Normally
> >such an apposition would refer to the head of the noun phrase, not one of
> >its constituents. And it is not particularly helpful to talk
> about "some of the passages" and "almost only".
>
> What I still don't understand (as I didn't understand it the first time
> that you indicated you thought that PLHRHS should be construed with DOXAN)
> is why the GLORY should be understood as "full of grace and truth" rather
> than the LOGOS, which I take to be the antecedent of AUTOU in EQEASAMEQA
> THN DOXAN AUTOU. So I think that the BDAG note makes more sense. Is it the
> DOXA that is really "full of grace and truth" (or whatever one understands
> this phrase to mean)? or is it rather He whose glory "we beheld" that is
> "full of grace and truth"?
>
> What Robertson's note says actually is: "Full (PLHRHS). Probably
> indeclinable accusative adjective agreeing with DOXAN (or genitive with
> MONOGENOUS) of which we have papyri examples (Robertson, Grammar, p. 275).
> As nominative PLHRHS can agree with the subject of ESKHNWSEN."
>
> I can understand PLHRHS as grammatically construing with DOXAN; I just
> don't, for my part, understand the sense of it; it's like saying "I know
> this is water: I can feel its wetness, cold and refreshing." Is it the
> "wetness" that is cold and refreshing, or is it the water? Perhaps one is
> thinking in terms of metonymy or synecdoche?
Actually, I was more interested in the grammar of the text. We now agree
that it is grammatically possible for PLHRHS to refer to DOXAN, since it is
probably indeclinable in this kind of construction as per Robertson et al.
(If it was declinable, it would need to refer to the subject of ESKHNWSEN,
but this is unlikely according to Robertson, and I agree.)
How to interpret the meaning is a somewhat different question and one's
answer depends on several factors, e.g.
1: What translation tradition one is familiar with (the English tradition is
to construe it with Jesus directly, the Danish is to construe it with DOXAN.
The English tradition requires reordering for clarity as can be seen in the
versions since the RSV, the Danish does not. NIV is one of the few versions
that has not reordered, but instead introduced a relative "who" not in the
text.)
2: What is the meaning of DOXA
3: What might be the meaning of Jesus being full of CARIS and ALHQEIA
4. What might be the meaning of DOXA being full of CARIS and ALHQEIA
I take DOXA here to be a presentation or revelation of the special character
and nature of Jesus. Some relevant passages in John would be 2:11, 5:44,
11:4, 11:40, 12:41, 17:5,22,24. Of these maybe 17:24 is most interesting
because it also talks about "seeing the glory of Jesus".
John only uses the word CARIS in chapter 1, verses 14,16 and 17, so I would
understand v. 14 in the light of 16 and vice versa with v. 15 being a
parenthesis. V. 16 talks about having received of his fullness, further
specified by CARIS ANTI CARIS, grace replacing grace. So, I understand the
glory of Jesus as revealed by him to be somewhat different from and superior
to the glory of God revealed up to then. This new glory is primarily
characterized by grace and truth. The new and old glory are contrasted in 2
Cor 3 and Hebrews 3.
It would take too long to discuss this at length and quote commentaries, but
let me just add a brief quote from Carson:
"The words full of grace and truth may be descriptive of the Word,
especially if PLHRHS, 'full', is understood to be nominative, agreeing with
logos, 'Word'; but because 'full' is regularly indeclinable (that is, it
does not formally 'agree' with any particular word form), it seems best to
take the expression as a modifier of 'glory'. The glory of God manifest in
the incarnate Word was full of grace and truth."
In the final analysis, I don't think it makes much difference whether one
sees Jesus himself as being characterized by grace and truth or one sees his
glory being characterized by grace and truth.
Iver Larsen
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