[B-Greek] Mt. 3:7 POLLOUS
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Nov 26 19:49:18 EST 2004
At 4:22 PM -0800 11/26/04, Eddie Mishoe wrote:
>Mitch:
>
>Even though this is not a Greek question, I can give
>you a Greek answer. The WHOLE group = TWN FARISAIWN
>KAI SADDOUKAIWN; the POLLOUS indicates only a portion
>of them (quite a few though). So, I think you are
>correct. There is a large group of Pharisees and
>Sadducees at this location, and many were baptized.
>Those that were NOT are the recipients of John's harsh
>words. Obviously, John is not speaking harshly to
>those who submitted to this baptism.
In terms of the Greek text, I really don't see how this follows. The texts
indicates that lots of Pharisees and Sadducees came to be baptized--it does
NOT say that there were Pharisees present on the spot that did NOT come to
be baptized, and I really wonder whether we can say that AUTOIS in the
phrase EIPEN AUTOIS which introduces the rebuke refers to those OTHER than
the ones whom John saw coming forward to be baptized. The text does NOT
say, "When he say that lots of Pharisees and Sadducees were coming forward
to be baptized, he said to THEM (i.e., the ones NOT coming forward to be
baptized), "Spawn of serpents, etc,, etc. ..." So I think rather that it is
in fact the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to be baptized that are
addressed by Jesus in Mt 3:7ff; they are warned that repentance must be
accompanied by a change in lifestyle, which is consistent with Mt's
insistence that DIKAIOSUNH must go beyond that characterizing the Pharisees
(cf. Mt 5:20)--and I think that standard is intended by this evangelist to
represent a high standard of DIKAIOSUNH to begin with.
So, whether this text be read in the Greek or in an adequate translation, I
don't think it should be understood to imply that the harsh words are
addressed to some others different from those specific Pharisees and
Sadducees who have come forward to be baptized.
>--- gfsomsel at juno.com wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 05:49:34 -0800 (PST) Mitch
>> Larramore
>> <mitchlarramore at yahoo.com> writes:
>> >
>> > IDWN DE POLLOUS TWN FARISAIWN KAI SADDOUKAIWN
>> > ERCOMENOUS EPI TO BAPTISMA AUTOU EIPEN AUTOIS,
>> > GENNHMATA ECIDNWN, TIS hUPEDEIXEN hUMIN FUGEIN APO
>> THS
>> > MELLOUSHS ORGHS
>> >
>> > In light of the very harsh words John has for the
>> > Pharisees and Sadducees, am I right in seeing in
>> > POLLOUS that there were SOME others who did not
>> repent
>> > and be baptized and those were the ones John
>> addresses
>> > with his harsh words?
>> >
>> > =====
>> > Mitch Larramore
>> > Spring Branch, Texas
>> > Student/Memorial High School
>> > __________________________________
>>
>> I'm not sure this is really a Greek question. It
>> would seem to really be
>> a logical question. Who would be addressed as
>> having been told to flee
>> the coming wrath if not those who came to receive
>> baptism on confession
>> of sin? How could he then be thought to address
>> those who did not come
>> since one might suppose that they were not told to
>> flee the coming wrath
>> or failed to respond.
>>
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>> ---
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>
>
>
>
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--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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