[B-Greek] 1 Cor 14:16 and NET Bible's translation

Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Sun Oct 17 22:48:26 EDT 2004


Dear Mitch,

>EPEI EAN EULOGHiS [EN] PNEUMATI, hO ANAPLHRWN TON
>TOPON TOU IDIWTOU PWS EREI TO AMHN EPI THi SHi
>EUCARISTIAi EPEIDH TI LEGEIS OUK OIDEN
>
>The NET Bible translation has:
>
>Otherwise, if you are praising God with your spirit,
>how can someone without the gift3 say "Amen" to your
>thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are
>saying?
>
>Footnote 3 reads:
>
>3 tn Grk "how can someone who fills the place of the
>unlearned say 'Amen.'"
>
>Can someone share with me how the "how can someone
>without the gift" comes from hO ANAPLHRWN TON TOPON
>TOU IDIWTOU PWS ?
>
>What specifically are the grammatical and syntactical
>(and perhaps even lexical) considerations that permit
>this translation? Please understand I am not
>challenging the translators. I am only trying to
>understand this translation, because it almost looks
>like a "paraphrase" of some kind or another.
>Commentaries I have referenced (admittedly not many
>though) had a hard time with TOU IDIWTOU, so I suspect
>the "without the gift" must relate to this some how.

HH: It seems like a paraphrase to me, too. You should read the BAGD 
entry on IDIWTHS. I will basically quote it.  The entry distinguishes 
the IDIWTHS from the APISTOS, saying that the IDIWTHS is neither a 
full-fledged believer nor an APISTOS. Rather he obviously stands 
between the two groups as a kind of proselyte or catechumen, perhaps 
"inquirer." In religious associations the term is used for 
non-members who may participate in the sacrifices. The closer 
relation which an IDIWTHS held with the Christian group, in contrast 
with an APISTOS, is clearly shown by the fact that he had a special 
place in the room where the Christians assembled.

HH: I myself wonder whether there was really a section in the 
assembly earmarked for such people. Perhaps somebody more 
knowledgeable in Greek could address this issue. It seems that hO 
ANAPLHRWN TON TOPON TOU IDIWTOU could be an idiomatic way for saying 
"the person there who was an IDIWTHS." It has the idea of filling a 
seat of course, but does the phrase really require a special seating 
section for such people?

HH: Anyway, the NET translation seems to have sacrificed some of the 
specific information of the Greek in order to get a more basic idea 
across. The issue one might take with the NET translation is that the 
Greek seems to be connoting something of an outsider. A believer who 
regularly attended, even if he could not understand, might have the 
general Christian understanding to say the amen at the end, but such 
speech could be alienating to a visitor. To say "someone without the 
gift" seems too broad in the sense that it includes all the 
Christians, too, except a gifted few.

				Yours,
				Harold Holmyard





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