[B-Greek] Biblical Greek question
wry
wry1111 at earthlink.net
Wed Oct 20 12:30:29 EDT 2004
Hi. This is my first message to this list. I am still writing a response to
a different message, which I intended to be first, so in that one I will
introduce myself.. Though I did take a beginning course in college many
years ago,
I do not know much of anything about the ancient Greek language, and I may
very
well be wrong in anything I say, so would appreciate any kind of feedback
and
correction. My personal interest is to study the various devices by which
meaning is covertly communicated in spiritual writings and works of art,
etc. As many of you probably are aware, one of the main ways such
meaning is communicated is by use of similar consonant bases, and another
is by the device of the numbering of passages. Cross-referencing is
done in this way from the New Testament to the Old and there is no reason to
assume that writers of the New Testament did not cross-reference in such a
way to the works of each other, assuming some of this material was wrtten
previously and the writers of subsequent material had access to it and
believed that (some of) their readership would have access to both texts and
a knowledge of the different devices they were using to make such
indications..
One thing worth noting is that any ordinary reader would not necessarily
know
how to access material in this way, as, to a degree, one would need to be in
some way clued-in as to how to do this, and then, as he practiced
interpretating
material in this manner, he would gain expertise, so do not necessarily make
the assumption that everything written is intended for everyone to
understand
in the same way, as this assumption can throw you off in making a more
sophisticated interpretation, as people receive from certain material
according to their understanding and like tends to acrue to like, so if you
assume
that because the common man would not grasp certain subtle nuances that are
conveyed by making a deliberate similarity of consonant bases in an efffort
to
indicate across referencing or to convey a certain subtle meaning, you will
limit
yourself in taking the kind of creative leap that is necessary to bridge a
certain
gap in formatory communication. .
It seems to me that there are at least two reasons to assume that one of
these writers was familiar with the writing of the other and deliberately
correlated his material to that which was previous and intended the reader
(a certain small portion of the reading audience) to do the same; the first
indication is the similarity in the numbering of the two passages. Mark
11-4,
which suggests both the number 14 and also the number 2 (11) can be somewhat
easily correlated with Ephesians 2-14. (I am not that familiar with what is
called
Gematria, but I know a kind of numerical addition was often used in ancient
Greece as a way of covert communication), and secondly, both of these
passages are obviously in reference to the same subject . To get a better
understanding of this, it would be interesting to try to interpret the
meaning of
the colt. (young horse). I do not know if any here are familar with the use
of animals as symbols for abstract qualities, but for ancient people of
Egypt
and Greece, as well as those of other cultures, it was very common to use
animals as symbols. In any case, in both instances, the writers are speaking
of some kind of convergence at a juncture, and the similarity in meaning
is not a matter of the imagination, but striking, so one could almost
assume
that the choice of a similar consonant base was intentional. Of course not
all readers would be aware of this, but if someone was specifically on the
lookout for this type of communication, this would be another indication
that one of these writers was deliberately cross-referencing to the other.
Finding the use of a similar word root in this instance is sort of like
running a math problem backwards to cross-check a previous solution,
but in this case, the common root becomes an indication of a correct
solution when looked at in combination with other indications. Alone, it
would not be meaningful,. but when correlated with the similarity in
numbering and in the similarity of content of the two passages, it takes
on a new significance. The first time one sees this kind of set-up and
begins to suspect it is a case of covert communication, perhaps the
evidence does not seem to make a complete case for the conclusion
that there actually is intended such a communication, but when one
begin to regognize the use of this kind of devices and certain combinations
of such devices time and time again, one begins to get a surer taste for it.
See below for a further comments..
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Standeven" <ac.standeven at ntlworld.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] Biblical Greek question
> I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me?
>
> In Mark 11:4 we read the phrase *"a place where two ways met"* -
> Strongs concordance suggests this word to be /"amphodon" /and informs me
> that it is from the base /"amphoteros" /and /"hodos" /and is used
> nowhere else in the NT.
-------
The fact that this is not a commonly used word is further evidence
of deliberate cross-referencing in the passage in Ephesians.
----------
>
> Now in Ephesians 2:14 we read the word *"both"* - Strongs concordance
> says the word to be /"amphoteros".
>
> /The question I have is this - would there be a connection in the mind
> of a Greek reader when comparing the phrase in Mark 11:4 and Ephesians
> 2:14. Could there be a sense in which the *"both" *of Ephesians, whilst
> referring to maybe Jew & Gentile, Mark could be making a similar
> allusion in the scene being presented? (The scene is full of "pairs".)
>
> Hope all this makes sense!
-------
It makes a lot of sense, to me, at least. The image of releasing from a
juncture point a colt that has never been mounted and of Jesus riding upon
it is surely very similar to what is being conveyed in the latter passage in
Ephesians 2-14.. I would also take a look at the other words which have the
same consonant base, word, 293 and 294 in your concordance, the former
meaning a fishing net--(to encircle a net around fish) and the latter
meaning to enrobe, (circle clothes around a body), so there is a sense of
encircling of something by something else, or an incorportation of one into
the other or parts into a whole, and so the place where there is a
convergence,
when applied to a human being, is suggesting of a spiral rather than a
crossroad,
but I guess it can be viewed as a crossing. In the other two dictionaries I
have
looked in besides Strongs, the word does seem to suggest an encircling and
all
of the words that begin with ampth seem to suggest this also, so since amph
seems to be associated with encircling, the meaning that someone has given
which suggests an inner portion of a city that roads surround is probably
more
correct, though maybe it was used colloquially to mean crossroad. Hope this
is
of some value. Never stop pondering, which is a way of mentally digesting
material in a way we are not usually accustomed to. The more we do it,
the more dimensional and less one -sided our thinking will become, for the
benefit of not only ourselves, but everyone. Sincerely, Wry
>
> Regards,
>
> Adrian Standeven (Bible Student)
> /
>
> /
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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