[B-Greek] Rev 1 1=> Main Clause [from Off List Question -- back onlist]
George F. Somsel
gfsomsel at juno.com
Sun Oct 31 09:16:54 EST 2004
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:06:33 -0500 George F. Somsel <gfsomsel at juno.com>
writes:
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:24:56 +0100 "Peter Streitenberger"
<ps2866 at bingo-ev.de> writes:
Thanks, George, for you help ! One last point:
I can't see any refering point in the appositive clause (hOS EMARTURHSEN
TON LOGON TOU QEOU KAI THN MARTURIAN IHSOU XRISTOU) to hOSA EIDEN, so I
consider the app-clause to be ended with XRISTOU. The hOSA EIDEN belongs
then to the main clause. There is no kai-connection, which would indicate
that hOSA EIDEN would belong to the app-clause in any case and John
refers to DIA TON LOGON KAI DIA THN MARTURIAN in V 9 as the past two
reasons for his exile. These two characteristics of John would be the
apposivitve to JOANNH in V 2 but not in connection with hOSA EIDEN.
The reciving of the revelation couldn't obviosly be the reason for the
exile. John did not EMARTURHSEN hOSA EIDEN so far.
Sorry for my poor English - I'm a Bavarian....
Peter
I think your comment should be On-list as a basis for further discussion
----- Original Message -----
From: George F. Somsel
To: ps2866 at bingo-ev.de
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Off List Question
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:07:14 +0100 "Peter Streitenberger"
<ps2866 at bingo-ev.de> writes:
> Dear George,
>
> which reference/function does hOSA EIDEN then have ?
> You don't have to put an extra "it" if you take that as object. It
> sounds
> simplier to me that way.
> Best whishes
> Peter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
You've moved somewhat beyond the clause which you were first considering
into new territory. Your initial question regarding
ESHMANEN APOSTEILAS . . . IWANNHi
is continued by an appositive clause
hOS EMARTURHSEN TON LOGON TOU QEOU KAI THN MARTURIAN IHSOU XRISTOU hOSA
EIDEN
With the modern tendency toward shorter sentences, I would translate this
as
He signified [it] by sending [it] through his messenger to John. He
witnessed the Word of God (1), even the martyrdom (2) of Jesus Christ, as
much as he saw (3)
(1) Yes, I take this as referring to G of J 1.1 EN ARXH HN hO LOGOS . . .
(2) this is a usage peculiar to the Apocalypse where MARTURIA always
involves suffering and even death for one's faith
(3) I.e. the author has already reported (witnessed) regarding the
sufferings of Christ.
george
gfsomsel
Peter,
The "point of connection" [Anknüpfungpunkt] for hOS EMARTURHSEN would
naturally be that of which it is an appositive, namely, IWANNHi. It is
"John, WHO WITNESSED . . . " (or "testified" [i.e., in the GofJ])
regarding the suffering of Christ. As you probably realize by now, I
don't think EMARTURHSEN is an "epistolary aorist" as many maintain.
Third person epistolary aorists are rare (One appears in Thucydides).
Moreover, epistolary aorists generally involve a form of GRAFW or PEMPW.
As regards your comment that "There is no kai-connection, which would
indicate that hOSA EIDEN would belong to the app-clause in any case", I
would not expect there to be a KAI here. Indeed, I would be amazed and
puzzled had there been one. hOSA in hOSA EIDEN is a relative pronoun
and refers to TON LOGON TOU QEOU KAI THN MARTURIAN IHSOU XRISTOU (NOTE:
hOSA is plural and is thus KATA SUNESIN -- "according to the sense" --
due to its referring to 2 things if taken to refer to LOGON . . . KAI . .
. MARTURIAN . . . or to all those things which Christ suffered).
george
gfsomsel
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list