[B-Greek] First Year Greek
sntjohnny at sntjohnny.com
sntjohnny at sntjohnny.com
Mon Sep 20 14:51:47 EDT 2004
(I hope I'm doing this right)
I'm a recent addition to the list, here. I found this list while searching
for further archeological support for my contention that Jesus almost
certainly would have preached and taught in Greek primarily, rather then
Aramaic. I say that not in order to provoke a topic I'm sure you have
thoroughly worked over, but just by way of introduction. The first edition
that I received of this newsletter concerned accent marks for first year
Greek, so I thought I would chime in!
I taught first year Greek for two years at a small Bible college, having had
three years of it in college in preparation for the seminary (which I didn't
actually end up going to). I have taught Greek to junior high kids, and
high schoolers, and now members of the church that I work at. I use Greek
quite a bit in my discussions on Christian apologetics. I have never, ever,
needed to resort to the accent marks for the topics covered. I introduced
them in the first year class, briefly explained their significance, and then
told them to ask their second year teacher to get into more depth.
My own first year of Greek was heavy on accent marks. It was pounded into
us, but in the remaining two years of further education they were never
relevant. I'm not saying that they aren't relevant. I'm only saying that
it is generally rare for it to be important, and when it is, it is in the
context of scholarly debate. Its been a few years since I was involved in
that debate (as a student), and maybe I would feel otherwise if I relearned
it all so as to re-enter the debate, but nonetheless don't think it
important- or even wise- to invest too much time on accent marks in the
first year.
Howdy all!
~sntjohnny
----- Original Message -----
From: <b-greek-request at lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:01 AM
Subject: B-Greek Digest, Vol 21, Issue 21
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: luke 9.13 (Maurice A. O'Sullivan)
> 2. RE: NT Greek accents[Scanned] (bgreek at ntresources.com)
> 3. RE: NT Greek accents (David Miller)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:18:00 +0100
> From: "Maurice A. O'Sullivan" <mauros at iol.ie>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] luke 9.13
> To: Garbo Hui <hpy_2703 at yahoo.com.hk>
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040920114649.0228b9f0 at pop.iol.ie>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 16:39 19/09/2004, Garbo Hui wrote:
>
>>Could anyone help me to solve a problem on the grammatical use of one word
>>in Greek?
>>(1)In Luke 9.13, there is OI DE EIPAN, why there is an article OI appears
>>here? what does it demonstrate? Is OI DE is an idiomatic use in Greek, or
>>it's just a style of Lukan's writting?
>
> " ...the masc. or fem. article in the Nominative with DE (accented and
> spaced as two separate words ) provides a very common way of saying > and
> he (she)<, or >bur he(she)< " p.123 Moule, C.F.D. An Idiom Book of N.T
> Greek. Cambridge: C.U.P, 1984.
>
> You probably already know the idiom MEN ...........DE, usually
> rendered literally as " on the one hand ...... and on the other ".
> In the case of Lk. 9:13, here there is another form of apposition > He
> replied ..........but they said....< [ This seems the more common way of
> translating, but I see the NRSV has " But he said .......they said ". I
> wonder why? ]
>
>>
>>(2)H ARTOI PENTE KAI ICQUES
>>What is the meaning of H ? Does H...KAI has the relation?
>
> No, look at the accents -- this is H used with the preceding neuter
> comparative PLEION > we do not have more than 5 ..... [ this, BTW,
> according to my software, is not only a NT hapax, but does not appear in
> the LXX ]
> Porter [ Porter, Stanley E. Idioms of the Greek New Testament. 2nd. Ed.
> Sheffield: JSOT Press, 1994.] uses the term "adversative conjunction "
> which is useful.
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
>
> Maurice A. O'Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]
> mauros at iol.ie
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:47:53 -0400
> From: bgreek at ntresources.com
> Subject: RE: [B-Greek] NT Greek accents[Scanned]
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <20040920114526.6490.qmail at mailshell.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>> second aorist participles normally shift their accent one
>> place nearer the ultima. This can really help since present
>> and second aorist participles are often confused.
>
> The stem change is far more obvious here than an accent shift.
>
> .
> Rodney J. Decker, Th.D., Assoc. Professor/NT
> Baptist Bible Seminary, Clarks Summit, PA, USA
> URL: www.NTResources.com
> PURL: purl.oclc.org/NT_Resources/
> Email: <rdecker> at <NTResources.com>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>> [mailto:b-greek-bounces.at.lists.ibiblio.org at bgreek.at.ntresou
>> rces.com] On Behalf Of John Schwandt
>> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:55 AM
>> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: RE: [B-Greek] NT Greek accents[Scanned]
>>
>> One more for the list, which my students find useful, is that
>> second aorist participles normally shift their accent one
>> place nearer the ultima. This can really help since present
>> and second aorist participles are often confused.
>>
>> John Schwandt
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:49:26 -0600
> From: David Miller <dmiller at briercrest.ca>
> Subject: RE: [B-Greek] NT Greek accents
> To: "b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Cc: Jun Cagas <juncagas2002 at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID:
> <70311EF2CCE3D611AC4100C09F0A1CDC02AA1526 at web1.briercrest.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Jun,
>
> Like you, I am teaching first year Greek for the first time this fall.
> Because I now wish I had been encouraged to learn accents when I started
> taking Greek, I am offering my students 5% extra credit as an incentive.
> This way keen students have some encouragement to learn the accenting
> system, but no one loses marks if they choose not to learn it.
>
> At present I only test for accents on the English to Greek part of
> vocabulary quizzes, but I may throw in some extra accenting exercises down
> the road. Of course, all students will have to learn those instances where
> accents make a significant difference in meaning.
>
> David Miller, Ph.D. (Cand.)
> Assistant Professor of New Testament
> Briercrest College
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jun Cagas [mailto:juncagas2002 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: September 17, 2004 9:10 AM
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [B-Greek] NT Greek accents
>
> Hi.
>
> I'm a Bible college teacher and I'm teaching Greek 1 and 2 this year.
> (This
> is the first year we require this of our Bible students.) We don't have
> the
> new books I read about here, like Mounce's, so I'm just content with what
> we
> have, which is Machen's. Seems like his is not much of a book for many
> now.
> I myself learned 1st year Greek from Ray Summer's book.
>
> But my question to you experienced Greek teachers there is this: Do I
> really
> need to teach the accents?
> I think, yeah, if you'd like to read correctly. But if just for study and
> exegesis, does it really matter?
>
> God bless . . .
>
> Jun Cagas
>
>
>
>
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