[B-Greek] translation of phrase

Richard Ghilardi qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
Wed Sep 22 20:39:55 EDT 2004


Hi Folks,

Carl W. Conrad wrote:
> > In view of Mark's second Passion Prediction: (9:31-- hOTI ... 
> > APOKTANQEIS
> > META TREIS hHMERAS ANASTHSETAI) one might simply put it as 
> STAURWQEIS 
> > DE
> > ANASTHSETAI/EGERQHSETAI (the two verbs are synonymous).

Steven Lo Vullo wrote:
> The masculine participle/third person finite verb seems too specific 
> 
> and personal for the general and aphoristic sense of the English.

Carl Conrad wrote:
> > In my view it would be unidiomatic to mimic the English 
> construction 
> > with
> > verbal nouns, e.g. META DE THN STAURWSIN GINETAI hH ANASTASIS 
> (although
> > that would be grammatically permissible); better might be a 
> metonymous
> > usage: META DE TON STAURON hH ANASTASIS or articular infinitives: 
> META 
> > DE
> > TO STAURWQHNAI TO ANASTHNAI/EGERQHNAI.

Steven Lo Vullo wrote:
> I like the last option with the articular infinitives. It is 
> idiomatic 
> as well as general and aphoristic (at least outside of a context).
> ============

I agree that either the metonymous translation or the one with the
infinitives is most appropriate. It may be a good idea to add the word
EPEITA to the second clause to balance the DE in the first, thus:

META DE TON STAURON EPEITA hH ANASTASIS
or
META DE TO STAURWQHNAI EPEITA TO ANASTHNAI/EGERQHNAI

Any translation that uses STAURWSIS must certainly be ruled out, not only
because it is unidiomatic, as Carl rightly points out, but on semantic
grounds as well. It is not to be found in the LXX, NT or the Apostolic
Fathers. BDAG does not cite it. I doubt it was used before the fourth
century or perhaps even later with the meaning "crucifixion". From the
quill of Thucydides it bore the meaning "stockade". I presume it
continued to have that meaning down into Hellenistic times. The ususal
word for "crucifixion" in the first century A.D. was, apparently,
STAUROPOIIA as evidenced by the papyri, specifically, POxy. 2339.25 dated
in the first century of our era.

Yours in His grace,

Richard Ghilardi - qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
New Haven, Connecticut USA



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