[B-Greek] Translation Exercises

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun Sep 26 09:24:48 EDT 2004


At 12:14 PM +0200 9/26/04, Kevin Smith wrote:
>I'm making my first foray from biblical to classical Greek. Do I have
>the following sentences right?
>
>
>1. APOQNHiSKOUSI KAI hOI FILOSOFOI, NEOI DE TAS YUCAS AEI
>
>"Even philosophers die, but they are always young at heart."

I think "young at heart" has an idiomatic sense in English that may be
questionable as conveying NEOI TAS YUCAS, which should bear the sense
"young in their spirits." On the other hand, the Greek sentence may have
been intended to give the sense "young at heart"--it looks like a Greek
sentence composed by a modern English-speaker--and there's a great hazard
to attempt to compose sentences in Greek involving idiomatic expressions.
The problem with NEOI TAS YUCAS is that it could imply the lack of
experience (and growing wisdom) that aging entails. Moreover, YUCH more
generally in older Greek refers either to the life-force or to the breath
of life itself rather than to attitudes and mental stance.

At any rate, the sentence doesn't appear to me to be one formulated in
antiquity. Where do these sentences come from? The longer I taught Greek
the more I found myself wincing at made-up Greek sentences in textbooks; I
don't doubt that others might wince at Greek sentences that I made up just
as surely. I really think that the best Greek sentences for learning Greek
are those that directly imitate an ancient Greek source.

>2. hOI QEOI PANTA SOFOI. QEION D' OUN TO AEI KALWS DIDASKEIN.
>
>"The gods are wise with reference to all things. Therefore, to always
>teach well is something divine."

I personally don't like split infinitives, but the sense of the translation
is essentially accurate; I do think that "something divine" shades QEION
off to a suggestive assertion rather than what it is: a straightforward
assertion: "but teaching well always is divine."

>*** Is QEION neuter nominative?

Yes, here it is a predicate adjective in agreement with the articular
infinitive which functions as the subject of an implicit ESTI(N).

>3. QNHTOI DH hOI ANQRWPOI TA SWMATA ALL' OUK APOQNHiKOUSIN hOI SOFOI hOI
>PALAI TAS YUCAS.
>
>"Men, indeed, are mortal in body, but the wise men of old, who were wise
>in soul, do not die."

I think that for TA SWMATA I'd keep what you were using previously: "mortal
with respect to their bodies." I find the Greek phrasing of the second
clause problematic with respect to the reference of TAS YUCAS: it doesn't
really belong with the group hOI PALAI ("those long ago in respect to their
souls"?); perhaps it is meant to be taken with APOQNHiSKOUSIN ("do not die
with respect to their souls") but if so, then TAS YUCAS ought to be
positioned next to APOQNHiSKOUSIN. As the Greek sentence stands, TAS YUCAS
doesn't make sense with hOI PALAI. I would expect for your English
something more along the lines of hOI PALAI SOFOI TAS YUCAS; it's the
second hOI that confounds matters.

>4. PANTES D' OUN MANQANOMEN AEI OUDE SOFOS OUDEIS ESTI QNHTOS ALL'
>ASOFOI HMEIS PANTES TE KAI PASAI.
>
>"Now then, all men are constantly learning and no wise man is mortal,
>but we all, both men and women, are foolish."

The first-plural belongs both to the first clause "we are all therefore
constantly learning" and "we are all of us, both men and women, unwise." I
think that the sense of ASOFOI is "lacking wisdom" rather than "foolish";
"foolish" implies imprudence, whereas the context of the sentence seems to
involve acquired knowledge.

I think you've got the second clause wrong; I think it's meant to be "nor
is anyone mortal wise." That is to say, I think that QNHTOS belongs to the
subject OUDEIS and that SOFOS is a predicate adjective.


>5. ZWHN TE KAI QANATON OI QEOI DIDOASIN. YUCH GAR AQANATOS KAI ESMEN
>SWMA QNHTOI PANTES OI ANQRWPOI.
>
>"The gods give both life and death. For the soul is immortal and we, all
>men, are mortal with reference to the body."

This seems fine, although I'd advise you to use "all people" rather than
"all men," inasmuch as the sentence pretty clearly is not gender-specific.

>6. TO MEN hEAUTON PANTA DIDASKEIN KALON ESTI KAI AGAQON, TO D' OUDEN
>EQELEIN MANQANEIN AEI AISCRON. hOI GAR SOFOI GE TAS YUCAS ESMEN NEANIAI.
>
>"To always teach oneself all things is good and well, but to never want
>to learn anything (i.e., be taught by another) is disgraceful. For even
>we who are wise of soul are [but] youths."

KALON KAI AGAQON is not "good and well" but more like "fine and good"--but
that's still misleading for this classical combination which seems
originally to have been applied to well-born Greeks and their behavior,
something like "graceful and competent." There's not really any good
English equivalent of the Greek phrase.

I think you've nicely turned the first Greek sentence as it stands,
although you might have better captured the antithesis of the MEN ... DE
construction, and I've said I don't like split infinitives (I realize that
many, perhaps most people aren't bothered by them). The last sentence
misses, I think, the intended nuance of ESMEN NEANIAI; it should be, "For
we, at least insofar as we are wise in our souls, are youths."

I'm somewhat disturbed by the phrase hEAUTON PANTA DIDASKEIN; although it
is intelligible enough and grammatical, I think that the middle of DIDASKW
would be preferable, as in Solon's celebrated dictum, GHRASKW AEI POLLA
DIDASKOMENOS, "I am growing old constantly teaching myself/learning lots of
things."

The Greek sentence looks somewhat (but probably isn't) a rephrasing of a
dictum from Hesiod's Works and Days:

Hesiod, WD, 293-297
  hOUTOS MEN PANARISTOS, hOS AUTOS PANTA NOHSEI
  [FRASSOMENOS TA K' EPEITA KAI ES TELOS HiSIN AMEINW]:
  ESQLOS D'AU KA'KEINOS hOS EU EIPONTI PIQHTAI:
  hOS DE KE MH' AUTWi NOEHi MHT' ALLOU AKOUWN
  EN QUMWi BALLHTAI, hO D' AUT' ACRHIOS ANHR.

"Best of all is the one who will himself discern everything [pondering what
may come hereafter and what is ultimately best]; very good also is the one
who heeds what another has rightly said; but the one who neither discerns
for himself nor hears another and stores it away in his heart--that's a
fellow no good at all."
-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



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