[B-Greek] Question on verbs

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun Sep 26 10:15:09 EDT 2004


At 9:47 AM -0400 9/26/04, JMonte2000 at aol.com wrote:
>Hi all
>    A question on verbs, so I can visualize this a bit  better. In the verb
>system, that is in the GNT, is there only, or usually one  way to make, say a
>Present active indicative, or a future active indicative, I  don't mean that
>form itself, I mean one or more ways in the Greek tense  system itself? Or is
>there two ways to say the same thing in some tenses? What I  am asking is are
>there two different names/ie Aorist, present future, to  accomplish the same
>thing.
>Example in English or a translation
>I will go = Future active middle
>I will go = (another say "1st Aorist or whatever") This is only an example
>and not true.
>
>I'm only explaining this the best way I can, I know it would not be a  prober
>way to explain, if I knew what to ask, that is properly.
>
>This would make it easier to formalize in my head.

Jimmy, in my opinion you're asking a question that it's too early to ask. I
sympathize with you very much because I had a tendency in my own teaching
over the years to want to anticipate, whenever I introduced a new basic
feature, all the exceptions that students might eventually confront and
find confusing. I learned what most people understand intuitively: that an
attempt to grasp all the details before one has a solid grip on the more
basic elements is self-defeating and almost sure to confound the learner. I
think that the fact is: one needs to learn the basics first and then
acquire details and exceptions through a long process of
trial-and-error--and lots of reading of lots of texts.

Let me attempt very briefly to say something about what I THINK you are asking:

(a) The present tense really IS very flexible and often can convey the
intent to do something later rather than immediately. The present tense is
indeed very flexible, and the present indicative sometimes seems to bear a
punctual sense rather than the imperfective aspect one normally associates
with present tense--but this depends more often than not on the particular
verb and the kind of action it normally involves. There's not really any
way to lay down a simple rule about this: it's something you have to learn
in ongoing confrontation with Greek usage.

(b) The future indicative does not really differentiate between punctual
and continuous senses--at least not in ancient Greek. Later--Modern--Greek
does evolve two distinct futures, one of them based on the aorist
subjunctive, the other based on the present subjunctive, so as to make
clear which kind of action one intends to indicate with a future-tense form.

(c) An aorist may under certain circumstances indicate the future; the most
common circumstance is MH or OU MH + aorist subjunctive may indicate what
surely WILL NOT happen or what one SURELY SHOULD NOT do. But that usage has
more to do with negation and subjunctive nuances than with the future idea
itself.


>Number 2
>
>Mounce uses a Master verb chart, and he say this is very important to know
>perfectly, why is that so important, if when you see the verb form and you
>can
>say what is. I know I'm not asking this properly also, but I hope someone
>understands what I mean.

I think I understand what you mean, and I think that memorizing the chart
will probably be useful, but there's also some danger to it. You DO need to
grasp the structure of the verb in its entirety and to have a sense of how
the augments, reduplication, prefixes, tense and mood markers, and personal
endings fit together with each other. On the other hand, what ultimately
matters it instant recognition of verb-forms and intuitive understanding of
what those forms imply; memorization of a chart won't necessarily yield
that capacity for instant recognition and intuitive understanding, however
one might wish it were so. I've seen too many instances of students who
could reproduce such verb charts on an exam and still not have much of a
clue what to do with a given Greek text. So all I can say is, such a chart
is useful to the extent that it enables you to develop that instantaneous
recognition of forms.

I fear that this may not be very helpful as it concerns more pedagogical
philosophy than detailed information about the working of Greek.
-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



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