[B-Greek] simple test *AURION HLQON
Donald Vance
donaldrvance at mac.com
Tue Dec 13 10:01:03 EST 2005
Note that Randall's examples were in the future, not the past. Not all
past events use a perfective form. The classic illustration of aspect
in English underscores this: I killed the man. (perfective) I was
killing the man when the phone rang. (imperfective) Randall's examples
had a lexical indicator of the future (maHar) and then he asks why we
don't get a suffix conjugation verb with that. Answer: because future
events are, by definition, incomplete. What about a future perfect?
Good question. That is why I am intrigued by what Rolf has proposed.
In my grammar of Classical Hebrew, I went with a totally aspectual
understanding of the verb. I am rethinking that. Are there really any
languages which are totally aspectual with no indicator of tense? For
that matter, are there any purely temporal languages? English is
clearly temporal/aspectual and I suspect Hebrew is too. Nevertheless,
though Rolf's example of Jer 50:2-3 does not work (none of the verbs
are future in reference) there are plenty of suffix conjugation verbs
that are non-past, thus indicating that Hebrew's verbal system is not
purely temporal, in fact, not primarily so. I think it is primarily
aspectual, but is there no grammaticalization (how the ^&$ does one
spell that!) of time in Hebrew? I'm not as sure as I was.
On the other hand, the Jude 1:14 example does not work either (and this
is the objection to the Jer 50:2-3 example as well) since, in a
prophetic context, one has to distinguish between the revelatory Event
[E-r if you will] (i.e., the dream, oracle, word of God) and the Event
portrayed [E-p] in the revelation. It is quite common in Hebrew
prophetic texts to get the so-called prophetic perfect (i.e., a suffix
conjugation verb with an apparent future reference) which, in fact, is
not referring to the actualization of the prophesied event (E-p) but to
the receipt of the revelation (E-r). For example, The Lord came with
his angels... The past "came" is because this is in reference to the
E-r, that is, the prophet SAW (or whatever) this earlier. The actual
"coming," the E-p, has not happened yet, so the actualization is in the
future. This explains the use of the aorist in Jude for an event that
has not occurred yet. Still, there may be other clearer examples of an
aorist finite verbs in non-past contexts that would force one to
conclude that Greek is also not a purely temporal language, either.
One more wrinkle for this discussion. In Ugaritic, it has been proposed
that the language works differently in poetic texts than it does in
prose texts and there is considerable data to suggest this. The poetic
texts in the Hebrew Bible also show a difficult-to-decipher verbal
system. In other words, in Hebrew the verbs that are problematic for
understanding the verbal system tend to be found in poetic texts and
some wonder if the fact that they are poetic is where the rub lies. Do
Greek poetic texts (e.g., Homer--but this introduces a diachronic
element into the discussion) evince a use of the verbal system that is
different than Greek prose texts?
I'm still thinking this through and I look forward to Rolf further
explaining his ideas.
Donald R. Vance, Ph.D.
Professor of Biblical Languages and Literature
Oral Roberts University
dvance at oru.edu
donaldrvance at mac.com
On Dec 13, 2005, at 7:46 AM, Ken Penner wrote:
>> I am apparently missing your point Randall. By definition, an event
>> that has not happened yet is viewed as incomplete and hence uses an
>> imperfective.
>> Don Vance
>
> Hi Don,
> Are you saying that all future and present events should be expressed
> using
> an imperfective form of the verb and all past events using a perfective
> form? If so, in your view, what is the difference between tense and
> aspect?
>
> Ken Penner
> M.C.S. (Biblical Languages, Greek Verbal Aspect)
> Ph.D. (cand.), McMaster University
> pennerkm at mcmaster.ca
> Flash! Pro vocabulary software: http://s91279732.onlinehome.us/flash or
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flash_pro/join
> Purchase: http://tinyurl.com/6tg2d
>
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