[B-Greek] John 3:31-32...
Arsenia Joaquin
arseniajoaquin at yahoo.com
Thu Dec 15 19:59:35 EST 2005
John 3:31-32 are translated in THE WILL (A Plain Translation of The New Testament from Greek to English) as follows:
"The One who comes from above is above all; the man who is out of the earth is out of the earth and he speaks out of the earth. The One who comes out of heaven (is above all;) this witnesses what He has seen and heard, and no one receives the witness of Him."
May God bless you all.
SEN http://arseniajoaquin.bravehost.com
Rolf Furuli <furuli at online.no> wrote:
Dear Rich,
I agree with Carl and disagree with with Ken, simply because we understand
reference time and aspect very differently. But science progresses when
scholars disagree. Below I make an aspectual analysis on the basis of my
aspectual model.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Lindeman"
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 2:37 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] John 3:31-32... aspect analysis
> OK. I am attempting to digest some of the recent debates concerning aspect
> theory. Based on the conversations I have overheard, let me make a fresh
> attempt at some of the passage I chose to wrestle with. I will attempt it
> in
> smaller segments:
>
> hO ANOQEN ERXOMENOS EPANW PANTWN ESTIN, hO WN EK THS GHS EK THS GHS ESTI,
> KAI EK THS GHS LALEI, hO EK TOU OURANOU ERXOMENOS EPANW PANTWN ESTI KAI
> hO
> hEWRAKE KAI HKOUSE TOUTO MARTUREI KAI THN MARTURIAN AUTOU OUDEIS LAMBANEI.
> John 3:31-32
>
> My initial rough translation: "The one who came from above is over all,
> the
> one that is from this earth is of this earth and speaks concerning this
> earth, the one who came from heaven is above all things and testifies what
> he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony."
>
> New aspect analysis. hO ANOQEN ERXOMENOS EPANW PANTWN ESTIN
> ERXOMENOS - E> at
> R time. or, Christ's coming is not completed at R time. New aspectual
> question: is this a reference to the incomplete nature of the first coming
> of Christ and a hint of the second coming of Christ?
We must distinguish between the situation and the description of that
situation. The verb ERCOMENOS is present participle. Present represents the
imperfective aspect. This means that if we imagine that John pointed his
finger at each word in order to show which part of its meaning potential he
wanted to stress or make visible, he would have pointed at the middle of the
coming event expressed by ERCOMENOS. Following his finger, we would see a
small section of the event in progression, but we would not see the
beginning nor the end. So the only visible thing is "a small piece of
coming" with no beginning and no end and with no relationship to the deictic
center (or speech time). This means that reference time intersects event
time in the middle and the verb is temporally indifferent.
Having made this analysis, the question arises how we shall translate the
words. So far we have only dealt with the linguistic analysis, but now we
must think of the reference, the thing or situation in the world denoted by
the verb. Jesus had already come, so if ERCOMENOS refers to this coming, a
past rendering in English is fitting. However, the use of the participle
suggests that it is not the coming itself that is stressed, but rather a
characteristic "the one who is coming," as Carl suggested. If a translator
after the linguistic and contextual analysis comes to the same conclusion,
then present should be used in English "The one who comes from above..."
I would like to stress that the use of the present participle need not
always
stress a characteristic of the one coming, but it can be used in a similar
manner as present indicative. One possible example is Matt 24:30 where we
find ERCOMENON. This is a quotation from Daniel 7:13 where the Aramaic text
has an
active participle of "to come" plus perfect of "to be; become". This
construction suggests that what is made visible is the unfolding
(progressive) attion of coming. It is likely that Matthew chose Greek
present participle to convey this force, and also because the participle is
governed by
the verb hORAW. If this is correct, the present participle in Matt 24:30
functions like present indicative. There are many things a translator must
keep in mind in order to make a good translation.
Because Greek present has no intrinsic tense, verbs in the present can refer
to past, present, and future.
>
> ESTIN - E=S, RR, imperfective, some of Christ's being over all
> occurs at R time. or, Christ's being over all is not completed at R time.
> New aspectual observation: Christ is over all things now and always.
>
> Is this better?
>
> Rich Lindeman
>
Best regards,
Rolf
Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo
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