[B-Greek] John 8:58 and Gen 17:1 (LXX)
Mike Sangrey
MSangrey at BlueFeltHat.org
Thu Feb 17 13:52:09 EST 2005
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 06:58 -0500, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
> At 8:46 PM -0800 2/16/05, Doug Hoxworth wrote:
> <snip>
> > ... I found very intriguing
> >about John 8:58 and Gen 17:1 in the LXX.
> >
> >People were bringing up Exod 3:14 and some texts in
> >Isaiah (I think this was George Somsel) as parallels.
> >Out of curiosity, I thought I'd do a search to find
> >EGW EIMI in the LXX and Genesis 17:1 came up. What I
> >found was that there were a number of similarities
> >that seem to suggest that this was what Christ was
> >alluding to. Here are the texts:
> >
> >Gen 17:1 EGENETO DE ABRAM ETWN ENENHKONTA ENNEA, KAI
> >WFQH KURIOS TWi ABRAM KAI EIPEN AUTWi EGW EIMI hO QEOS
> >SOU, EUARESTEI ENANTION EMOU KAI GINOU AMEMPTOS
> >
> >John 8:56 ABRAAM hO PATHR hUMWN HGALLIASATO hINA IDHi
> >THN hHMERAN THN EMHN, KAI EIDEN KAI ECARH 57 EIPON OUN
> >hOI IOUDAIOI PROS AUTON PENTHKONTA ETH OUPW ECEIS KAI
> >ABRAAM hEWRAKAS; 58 EIPEN AUTOIS IHSOUS AMHN AMHN LEGW
> >hUMIN, PRIN ABRAAM GENESQAI EGW EIMI
> >
<snip>
> (5) GINOMAI is an ancient and versatile verb in Greek, occurring both as a
> copula with a predicate phrase and as indicator of an event of generation
> or coming into being. In Gen 17:1 EGENETO is a copula, functioning as an
> equivalent of an aorist of EIMI which has no aorist: "Abraham was
> ninety-nine years old ..."; in John 8:56 the infinitive GENESQAI indicates
> an event of birth; the usage of this work-horse verb in the two texts is
> very different.
Could PRIN ABRAAM GENESQAI be accurately rendered: "Before he became
Abraham"? Which, of course, is exactly what is going on in Gen. 17. In
a very real sense, Abram is going away, and Abraham is being birthed.
--
Mike Sangrey
msangrey AT BlueFeltHat.org
Landisburg, Pa.
"The first one last wins."
"A net of highly cohesive details reveals the truth."
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