[B-Greek] 1 Peter 1:15"

Charles Rempel CharlesR at mygalaxyexpress.com
Sat Jan 1 21:04:39 EST 2005



-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Rempel [mailto:CharlesR at mygalaxyexpress.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:00 AM
To: Mitch Larramore
Subject: RE: [B-Greek] 1 Peter 1:15"


Hi Mitch,

ML: I am no expert, but something tells me you have misunderstood the full
definition of Middle Voice. Your English gloss is overly simplistic and
restrictive (for example, what about the Causative Middle?) and it does not
take into consideration an impersonal subject. I note that your only two
examples use impersonal subjects (table, homestead). But I'm excited they
are because it makes for a good question for the scholars out here.

Does the Middle Voice function differently when the subject is impersonal?

CDR: First, I am not discussing the middle voice. Therefore, yes, my
observations are simplistic. For a deeper discussion I suggest you get
involved in the thread on the middle voice which Carl W. Conrad started.

Secondly, this is not a middle voice it is passive. In the Romans 11 passage
Paul uses the middle voice in verses 1 & 6. He uses the active voice in
verse 5. Verse 9 is the passive voice. I think that Paul would be somewhat
astounded to the fact that he did not understand the form carelessly slipped
back and forth between a hypothetical MP1 and MP2. As a matter of fact I
would suspect that Paul would have no clue as to what MP1 and MP2 stood for.

Thirdly, therefore your question on the causitive middle with an impersonal
subject becomes irrelevant until you can establish that Paul was ignorant of
the distinctions made between the voices.

Charles D. Rempel
30 year student
Without Portfolio

--- Charles Rempel <CharlesR at mygalaxyexpress.com>
wrote:

> GENHQHHTE
>
> Acts 1:20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms,
> 'LET HIS HOMESTEAD BE
> MADE DESOLATE, AND LET NO ONE DWELL IN IT'; 'LET
> ANOTHER MAN TAKE HIS
> OFFICE.'
>
> Genhqh,tw h` e;paulij - Aorist Passive Imperative 3s
>
> The questions reamain:
> Is the homestead "doing" the acting? Active sense
> Is an outside force acting upon it? Passive sense
> Is the homestead acting upon itself? Middle sense
>
> Here we might insert either God as the actor, or
> Judas as the actor. We
> could say that God caused the curse on Judas'
> homestead to be true. Or, we
> could say that the actions of Judas caused the curse
> to be true.
>
> It is unlikely that the "homestead" caused itself to
> be desolate.
>
> Charles D. Rempel
> 30 year student
> Without Portfolio
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>




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