[B-Greek] John 8:58 PPA???
kgraham0938 at comcast.net
kgraham0938 at comcast.net
Sat Jan 15 08:55:32 EST 2005
There is a guy named Jason Beduhn currently debating with Rob Bowman on the issue of John 8:58 right now. His view is that John 8:58 is a PPA. (present of Past Action still in progress).
He also argues that saying Before Abraham was I AM was bad english.
But since this is a greek chat room, does anyone here think John 8:58 could be a PPA??
--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:47:31 -0600 "Gary Hedrick" <gary at cjf.org> writes:
> > In John 8:58, Jesus makes the rather incredible claim that
> > before
> > Abraham was born, "I am" (ego eimi). Aside from the obvious import
> > of
> > Jesus' declaration that He existed even before Abraham came into
> > being,
> > could He also be identifying himself here as the "I AM" of Ex. 3:14?
> > The
> > LXX at Ex. 3:14 has, Egw eimi ho wn ("I am the one who is").
> >
> > The Hebrew at Ex. 3:14 has ahaya asar ahaya ("I am who I
> > am," or
> > "I will be who I will be").
> >
> > Interestingly, the Hebrew NT translates ego eimi as ani
> > hoo, or
> > "I (am) he," at John 8:58, so it doesn't appear to make a clear
> > connection
> > to Ex. 3:14 (that is, unless I'm missing something here). But I
> > realize
> > we're not here to talk about theology, or even about Hebrew, so my
> > question
> > for this list is simply this: based on the Greek texts of both John
> > 8:58 and
> > also the LXX Ex. 3:14, is it plausible that Jesus was equating
> > himself with
> > the great I AM of the OT? Or do you agree with critics of this view
> > who say
> > the connection between John 8:58 and Ex. 3:14 is a stretch?
> >
> > Also, I wonder if we have a hint as to the meaning of
> > the Greek
> > text when it says in the next verse that the Judeans who heard Him
> > responded
> > by picking up stones to execute Him, ostensibly for blasphemy, or
> > for
> > claiming to be God. Would there have been any basis for a death
> > sentence if
> > He was not equating himself with God?
> >
> > I'm rather new to this list, so if there's something in
> > the
> > archives about this, perhaps someone would be kind enough to point
> > me in the
> > right direction. Many thanks.
> >
> > Dr. Gary Hedrick
> >
> > CJF Ministries
> >
> > 611 Broadway
> >
> > San Antonio, TX 78215 USA
> >
> > Phone 210-226-1075, Ext. 115 (w/ voice mail)
> >
> > Fax 210-690-8421
> >
> > gary at cjf.org or gmhedrick at sbcglobal.net
> ___________________
>
> I think Isaiah might be a more fruitful source from which to derive the
> "I am" passages of John. I believe Joachim Jeremias wrote something on
> this though it has been quite a number of years since I read it.
>
> Is 43.10 hINA GNWTE KAI PISTEUSHTE KAI SUNHTE hOTI EGW EIMI
> MT L:Ma(aN T."D:(W. W:Ta)a:MiYNW. LiY W:TfBiYNW. ***
> K.iY_)a:NiY HW.) *** (as in your Hebrew NT)
> 43.25 EGW EIMI EGW EIMI hO ECALEIFWN TAS ANOMIAS SOU
> 45.8 EGW EIMI KURIOS hO KTISAS SE
> 45.18 EGW EIMI, KAI OUK ESTIN ETI
> 45.19 EGW EIMI hO QEOW, KAI OUK ESTIN ALLOS
> 46.4 hEWS GHROUS EGW EIMI, KAI hEWS AN KATAGHRASHTE, EGW EIMI
> etc.
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> ___________
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