[B-Greek] help with Mark 6:8 hina clause

kgraham0938 at comcast.net kgraham0938 at comcast.net
Sun Jan 16 14:13:50 EST 2005


I am trying to figure out this contridiction between Mark 6:8 and Luke 9:3.

Mark says take only one staff, and Luke says take no staff.

But Mark puts his AIRW in the subjuntive, after a hina clause

HINA MEDEN AIRWSIN EIS ODON EI ME RABDON MONON.  He ordered them to take nothing except one staff.

But in Luke 9:3 it is an imperative

MEDEN AIRETE EIS TEN ODON METE PABDON

So I am wondering if the answer to the contridiction lies in the fact that one verse the verb is a subjuntive, and the other it is imperative?  Because both use  the verb AIRW.

And I realize that Matthew uses KTESESQE, which means aquire,but Mark and Luke uses AIRW, which is pretty odd.

--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net


> At 2:04 PM -0500 1/15/05, Jeff Smelser wrote:
> >Jeff Smelser here,
> >
> >KAI IDOU LEPROS PROSELQWN PROSEKUNEI AUTWi LEGWN, KURIE, EAN QELHiS DUNASAI
> >ME KAQARISAI. KAI EKTEINAS THN CEIRA hHYATO AUTOU LEGWN, QELW KAQARISQHTI.
> >(Mt. 8:2-3a)
> >
> >Why in such passages as Mt. 8:3,  Mk. 1:41, Lk. 5:13 do we suppose hAPTOMAI
> >is "touch" rather than "take hold of"? Might it be equally arguable that
> >Jesus "took hold of" the leper, that the gesture associated with the miracle
> >was a strong one rather than a delicate one? See also Mt. 8:15, Mt. 9:20f,
> >etc.
> >
> >Or is it sufficiently clear from non-biblical Greek that "touching" rather
> >than "taking hold of" was associated with divine blessing, as per BDAG on
> >hAPTW, paragraph 2c?
> >
> >(Of course, in Mt. 9:29 and 20:34, "touched their eyes" makes much more
> >sense than "took hold of their eyes"!)
> 
> It should be noted that the active hAPTW is essentially used only of
> igniting a fire or lighting a lamp: "making something 'catch' fire"; the
> middle hAPTOMAI yields the standard "Aktionsart" for this verb, which is
> essentially middle, "bring oneself in contact with" with a genitive of the
> thing contacted.
> 
> This verb is a good example of a sizable class of Greek verbs that are
> fundamentally middle and have active forms that are fundamentally CAUSATIVE.
> 
> I think one can decide only by the context upon whether hAPTESQAI means
> simply "make contact with" (i.e. "touch") or "hold on to," The question has
> been raised in particular about John 20:17 where the risen Jesus says to
> Mary Magdalene, MH MOU hAPTOU. OUPW AR ANABEBHKA PROS TON PATERA. Is it
> "Don't touch me" or "Don't cling to me"? One might suppose there's a hint
> here of quasi-intangibility, and one could even take the present-tense
> injunction as conative: "Don't try to come into contact with my body ..."
> I'm not really speculating on what may be implied in this narrative beyond
> what possibilities may reside in the chosen FORM  of the verb:
> present-tense middle: MH MOU hAPTOU.
> -- 
> 
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> ---
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