[B-Greek] help with Mark 6:8 hina clause
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun Jan 16 14:57:09 EST 2005
At 7:13 PM +0000 1/16/05, kgraham0938 at comcast.net wrote:
>I am trying to figure out this contridiction between Mark 6:8 and Luke 9:3.
The focus of B-Greek discussion is not resolving apparent contradictions
between parallel synoptic texts but elucidating what the Greek text(s)
itself/themselves may legitimately be understood to mean. If your concern
is with critiquing the gospel parallels, you should take the question to
Synoptic-L:
http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l/
>Mark says take only one staff, and Luke says take no staff.
>
>But Mark puts his AIRW in the subjunctive, after a hINA clause
>
>hINA MHDEN AIRWSIN EIS ODON EI MH RABDON MONON. He ordered them to take
>nothing except one staff.
>
>But in Luke 9:3 it is an imperative
>
>MHDEN AIRETE EIS THN ODON MHTE PABDON
>
>So I am wondering if the answer to the contradiction lies in the fact that
>one verse the verb is a subjuntive, and the other it is imperative?
>Because both use the verb AIRW.
No the problem doesn't lie in that, because the hINA AIRWSIN clause is an
indirect command (substantive clause functioning as object of PARHGGEILEN.
Luke's text offers a direct command. The problem lies in opposed statements
of what the disciples/apostles are told to do.
>And I realize that Matthew uses KTHSESQE, which means acquire,but Mark and
>Luke uses AIRW, which is pretty odd.
Matthew's perspective concerns what the disciples should PROCURE in
preparation for their mission, Mark and Luke focus rather on what items
readily available to them they should PICK UP. There's not really any
problem there.
>--
>Kelton Graham
>KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
>
>
>> At 2:04 PM -0500 1/15/05, Jeff Smelser wrote:
>> >Jeff Smelser here,
>> >
>> >KAI IDOU LEPROS PROSELQWN PROSEKUNEI AUTWi LEGWN, KURIE, EAN QELHiS DUNASAI
>> >ME KAQARISAI. KAI EKTEINAS THN CEIRA hHYATO AUTOU LEGWN, QELW KAQARISQHTI.
>> >(Mt. 8:2-3a)
>> >
>> >Why in such passages as Mt. 8:3, Mk. 1:41, Lk. 5:13 do we suppose hAPTOMAI
>> >is "touch" rather than "take hold of"? Might it be equally arguable that
>> >Jesus "took hold of" the leper, that the gesture associated with the
>>miracle
>> >was a strong one rather than a delicate one? See also Mt. 8:15, Mt. 9:20f,
>> >etc.
>> >
>> >Or is it sufficiently clear from non-biblical Greek that "touching" rather
>> >than "taking hold of" was associated with divine blessing, as per BDAG on
>> >hAPTW, paragraph 2c?
>> >
>> >(Of course, in Mt. 9:29 and 20:34, "touched their eyes" makes much more
>> >sense than "took hold of their eyes"!)
>>
>> It should be noted that the active hAPTW is essentially used only of
>> igniting a fire or lighting a lamp: "making something 'catch' fire"; the
>> middle hAPTOMAI yields the standard "Aktionsart" for this verb, which is
>> essentially middle, "bring oneself in contact with" with a genitive of the
>> thing contacted.
>>
>> This verb is a good example of a sizable class of Greek verbs that are
>> fundamentally middle and have active forms that are fundamentally CAUSATIVE.
>>
>> I think one can decide only by the context upon whether hAPTESQAI means
>> simply "make contact with" (i.e. "touch") or "hold on to," The question has
>> been raised in particular about John 20:17 where the risen Jesus says to
>> Mary Magdalene, MH MOU hAPTOU. OUPW AR ANABEBHKA PROS TON PATERA. Is it
>> "Don't touch me" or "Don't cling to me"? One might suppose there's a hint
>> here of quasi-intangibility, and one could even take the present-tense
>> injunction as conative: "Don't try to come into contact with my body ..."
>> I'm not really speculating on what may be implied in this narrative beyond
>> what possibilities may reside in the chosen FORM of the verb:
>> present-tense middle: MH MOU hAPTOU.
>> --
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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>---
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--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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