[B-Greek] I John 5:1belief and regeneration and AGAPAi
MAKARIOIOIPRAEIS at aol.com
MAKARIOIOIPRAEIS at aol.com
Thu Jan 27 03:01:35 EST 2005
...I think the writer is most concerned here to cause a relationship of love
to exist
between the various members of his troubled church, hence the whole verse is
important to what he is communicating. The participle is not about time but
the
situation of believers. That relates directly to the perfect indicative. The
believer is in a situation and in that situation should (AGAPAi is probably
subjunctive with a sense of oughtness) love all others in that situation (who
have
been begotten of God). The writer was not concerned with modern Christian
concerns of soteriology.
I'm wondering if AGAPAi should be considered as indicative in 1 Jn 5:1, only
because the following verse states ..."By this we know that we love the
children of God...". It seems that the love that exists (or that it should exist) is
found among those who are truly born of God, in other words this is an
evidence that they are children of God and their regeneration is genuine. Either
way the subjuctive "we should love" that is found in 1 John 3:11 immediatly
follows; "By this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest,
whoever is not practicing righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not
love his brother" When the subjuntive "we should love.." is used in verse 11
it seems that this is meant to discern ultimately those who are truly children
of God, those who "has eternal life abiding in him" (3:15). As how it was
written: "By this we know that we know Him" (2:3) and likewise "By this we know
we love the children of God (5:2)"
Like the participle for "believing", the participle for "loving" in 1 John
4:7 is identified with regeneration:
PAS hO AGAPWN EK TOU QEOU GEGENNHTAI
The perfect passive "has been begotten" and the participle "loving" matches
the grammar of 1 John 5:1 exactly. likewise 1 John 2:29:
PAS hO POIWN THN DIKAIOSUNHN EX AUTOU GEGENNHTAI
So I consider "believing" "loving" and "practicing (righteousness)" as the
evidence of those who are truly begotten of God. Which is what I meant about the
order of faith and regeneration. I can't see 1 John 2:29, 4:7, and 5:1 as
indirect statements. (such as a man who is believing that a sewer is filthy
regardless of whether he came to such a conclusion before during or after he was
rescued.)
gfsomsel wrote:
"It would be difficult, if not impossible, to assert that the "being born" is
subsequent to the "believing." It would seem that the emphasis is upon the
antecedent work of God in regeneration which produces the believing."
So it seems to me that throughout the epistle John is making the distinctions
of those who have been truly born of God, as apposed to those who are still
"in darkness until now.." (2:9). These distinctions include "loving God"
"loving those who are begotten of God" "practicing righteousness" as well as
"overcoming the world" etc. all these being present tense participles. The perfect
indicative tense being used each time to indicate the event (EK TOU QEOU
GEGENNHTAI), was completed in the past, and having results existing in the present
time.
I light of these examples is the statement:
"John used perfect passives soley as adjectives without emphasizing time"*
simply incorrect, or is there something I'm still not understanding
correctly?
*(I still have the original lenghty email)
Sincerely,
Richard Windisch
New Jersey, USA
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