[B-Greek] I John 5:1belief and regeneration and AGAPAi

MAKARIOIOIPRAEIS at aol.com MAKARIOIOIPRAEIS at aol.com
Thu Jan 27 03:01:35 EST 2005


...I think the writer is most concerned here to cause a relationship of love 
to exist 
between the various members of his troubled church, hence the whole verse is 
important to what he is communicating. The participle is not about time but 
the 
situation of believers. That relates directly to the perfect indicative. The 
believer is in a situation and in that situation should (AGAPAi is probably 
subjunctive with a sense of oughtness) love all others in that situation (who 
have 
been begotten of God). The writer was not concerned with modern Christian 
concerns of soteriology. 

I'm wondering if AGAPAi should be considered as indicative in 1 Jn 5:1, only 
because the following verse states ..."By this we know that we love the 
children of God...". It seems that the love that exists (or that it should exist) is 
found among those who are truly born of God, in other words this is an 
evidence that they are  children of God and their regeneration is genuine. Either 
way the subjuctive "we should love" that is found in 1 John 3:11 immediatly 
follows; "By this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest, 
whoever is not practicing righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not 
love his brother" When the subjuntive "we should love.." is used in verse 11 
it seems that this is meant to  discern ultimately those who are truly children 
of God, those who "has eternal life abiding in him" (3:15).  As how it was 
written: "By this we know that we know Him" (2:3) and likewise "By this we know 
we love the children of God (5:2)" 

Like the participle for "believing", the participle for "loving" in 1 John 
4:7 is identified with regeneration:
 
PAS hO AGAPWN EK TOU QEOU GEGENNHTAI

The perfect passive "has been begotten" and the participle "loving" matches 
the grammar of 1 John 5:1 exactly. likewise 1 John 2:29:

PAS hO POIWN THN DIKAIOSUNHN EX AUTOU GEGENNHTAI

So I consider "believing" "loving" and "practicing (righteousness)" as the 
evidence of those who are truly begotten of God. Which is what I meant about the 
order of faith and regeneration. I can't see 1 John 2:29, 4:7, and 5:1 as 
indirect statements. (such as a man who is believing that a sewer is filthy 
regardless of whether he came to such a conclusion before during or after he was 
rescued.) 

gfsomsel wrote: 

"It would be difficult, if not impossible, to assert that the "being born" is 
subsequent to the "believing."  It would seem that the emphasis is upon the 
antecedent work of God in regeneration which produces the believing."

So it seems to me that throughout the epistle John is making the distinctions 
of those who have been truly born of God, as apposed to those who are still 
"in darkness until now.." (2:9). These distinctions include "loving God" 
"loving those who are begotten of God" "practicing righteousness" as well as 
"overcoming the world" etc. all these being present tense participles. The perfect 
indicative tense being used each time to indicate the event (EK TOU QEOU 
GEGENNHTAI), was completed in the past, and having results existing in the present 
time.
  
I light of these examples is the statement: 
"John used perfect passives soley as adjectives without emphasizing time"*
simply incorrect, or is there something I'm still not understanding 
correctly? 
*(I still have the original lenghty email)
Sincerely, 
Richard Windisch
New Jersey, USA








More information about the B-Greek mailing list