[B-Greek] word order 1Jo 2.8
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at juno.com
Thu Jun 2 08:05:55 EDT 2005
On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:28:36 +0200 "R Yochanan Bitan Buth"
<ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il> writes:
>
> Shalom George,
>
> Thank you for the observation and implied question. There is some
> implied information in the overall analysis that may help put us on
> the same page.
>
> 1) putting an element in front of a verb, by itself, is not a
> function
> and doesn't explain what it is doing or how it got there. Even if
> the
> item occurs before the verb 100% of the time it still doesn't
> explain
> its function, nor does it imply that there is only one function.
> For
> example, in discussing Helma Dik's Word Order, one must note that
> two
> separate functions are involved, "Topic" and "Focus". While "Focus"
> is
> somewhat transparent in plain-vanilla English (though one must
> remember that it invovles syntactic/pragmatic marking), "Topic" is
> not. It does not refer only to a 'broad subject', or 'assumed
> information', it can provide a new setting, a comparison, or any
> kind
> of material that is chosen and marked to serve as a contextual
> point
> of reference. In most languages, whenever and if two special marked
> items would occur in a clause, one would expect a natural order of
> Topic then Focus. Greek is actually special in this regard in that
> it
> sometimes allows (but does not demand!) Focal items to be placed in
> front of Topical items.
>
> 2) in order to use a language, one must generate any and every
> individual instance. Statistics are not part of a grammar. If less
> than 100% they do not place an item in any one position while it is
> being generated from the brain to speech/output. (But statistics
> are
> useful for documenting dialect, genre, and historical drift.) How
> does
> this apply to HDH 'already' in Greek? Compare Matthew 3:10 with
> Matthew 14:15.
>
> Matt 3:10 HDH DE H AKSINH PROS THN RIZAN TWN DENDRWN KEITAI
> Already and the axe to the root of the trees is placed/lies
> Matt 14:15 H WRA HDH PARHELQEN
> The hour already has passed
> In both sentences HDH is in front of the verb. Those like Dik or
> myself would read that as 'marking', but the real question is how
> did
> HDH get to exactly where it is in each sentence? Statistics do not
> dictate 3:10 versus 14:15. Functions do. I read HDH in 3:10 as
> providing a setting, as not being the salient main point of the
> sentence. In Dik's terms that is "Topic". (So is AKSINH, though
> PROS
> THN RIZAN TWN DENDRWN is a viable candidate for a Focus reading.
> Please note, multiple readings are possible and a grammar should be
> able to account for them, too. In Mt 3:10 it would be possible to
> read
> HDH as Focal. I happen to think Topical to be more probable here,
> in
> my terminology, a Contextualization, a Link.) However, in 14:15 I
> read
> HDH as the salient point of the sentence. It is Focus. What kind?
> It
> is adding pressure and a 'crisis' to a contextual implication from
> the
> previous sentence. And in 14:15 HDH is not first in its clause and
> is
> after a Topicalized subject.
>
> Back to statistics. Notice that is Matthew 14:15 'the hour' is
> first
> in the sentence, not HDH. The author had to choose between the two
> and/or the verb. Statistics do not control him nor do they help the
> reader 'unpack' the clause. 'Hour' is best read as a 'Topic', we
> need
> to explain how it got in front of HDH. HDH can naturally be read as
> most salient and a Focus function would then explain its fronting
> to
> the verb 'passed'. Please note, its order was not syntactically
> fixed
> like DE 'and'. Compare Luke 23:44 HN HDH 'it was already ...' and
> 24:29 KEKLINEN HDH H HMERA 'inclined down already the day' (Acts
> 27:9,
> too). Not to menttion 1 Jo 4:3 KAI NUN EN TW KOSMW ESTIN HDH.
>
> The point is that a speaker and a listener need to evaulate the
> specific placement of each item. In Greek, syntax alone does not
> dictate this order, but pragmatic functions interact with syntactic
> functions in generating a clause, sentence and discourse. Yes,
> there
> are semantic functions, too. Iver's point about EINAI and EXEIN is
> well taken, Greek has a strong tendency to mark the complements of
> such words that are so colorless in themselves.
>
> Hopefully, this clarifies something of the difference between a
> statistical approach to word order and a functional one.
>
> ERRWSO
> Randall Buth
_________________
Randall,
EUXARISTW SOI PERI APOKRISEWS SOU
I do not think that statistics plays a great part in one's reaction to
what is said / written in most languages. We do not first analyze the
sentence to determine what the significance of each element might be
before we react to it. Yes, we do order our words in order to create a
certain understanding or impression, but we react to it almost
instinctively. Analysis of a sentence may determine WHY it conveys a
certain meaning or a certain impression, but it is not necessary to first
analyze the sentence in order to understand it or to be swayed in some
fashion by it. If the order of the words doesn't reach out and grab you
by the throat, then the order probably isn't very significant to the
understanding of the sentence. In the case of HDH, it is simply the fact
that generally it preceeds the verb so, when it follows this pattern in
any particular sentence, the order itself makes no particular impression.
The word HDH itself, however, seems to carry a certain significance with
it. Compare
"He did it" and "He already did it" or "He did it already."
While "He did it" conveys the thought that the action has been completed,
"He already did it" seems to convey a greater intensity and "He did it
already" seems to imply "It's done. Get with the program!" So the order
has some significance, but the presence of the very word intensifies the
meaning ALREADY. :-)
george
gfsomsel
___________
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