[B-Greek] EXESTAKENAI in Acts 8:11: transitive or intransitive?
Randy Leedy
Rleedy at bju.edu
Thu Mar 10 09:02:05 EST 2005
Carl, I was thinking about this as I walked home yesterday, and I think
I realized what happened. The message from me to which Jim responded did
not quote Stephen's original post. I only expressed appreciation for the
medieval quotations, without mentioning that they were lexicographical
entries. I think Jim inferred, ever so legitimately, perhaps, if he did
not recall details of Stephen's post, that I meant quotations of the
nature of grammatical parallels. I think his caveat would be very well
aimed if I indeed were trying to use a medieval parallel to vindicate a
Koine construction. I suspect that Jim would not feel much differently
from you and me on the value of a quotation from a medieval
lexicographer. But of course only he can affirm or deny that hunch, and
perhaps we will hear from him again to clear up the misunderstanding
once and for all.
It occurred to me just now as I finished typing the above that I should
check the archives to see whether Jim had perhaps posted again without
CCing me. And I find that he did indeed, writing:
>>>
My point, though, was that simply the virtue of being a Byzantine and a
greek speaker does not necessarily make one an expert in Koine- any
more
than a modern person who speaks modern english tolerably well would be
considered an expert in Shakespearean grammar. It may be the case, but
it may not. Each grammarian stands or falls on their own merits, not
the merits of their social location. After all, Byzantines could make
grammatical errors too, as well as misread and misinterpret.
<<<
But this is a somewhat different tune from his earlier statement, which
was
>>>
The point is that medieval greek texts are not Koine greek texts. To
equate the grammar of the two is to equate modern American English
grammar with Shakesperean grammar.
<<<
Jim, your earlier statement seems to me to reflect an assumption that I
was comparing grammatical parallels rather than reading a
lexicographical entry. But your second statement jumps to the other
track and warns, more mildly, against depending on medieval grammar or
lexicography. I see that you don't attach quite the value to those
entries that I thought you might (though I wouldn't want you to think
that I myself viewed them as oracles on the topic--only as input
deserving consideration in light of other relevant factors). So I
certainly retract that suggestion (though perhaps my "not much
differently" can be stretched enough to allow the suggestion to stand as
valid after all), but for now I'm sticking with my original hunch that
this whole sub-thread started from a misunderstanding of my original
statement due to your not having the details of Stephen's post in your
mind as you read my initial expression of appreciation for the medieval
quotes. My apology for my part in creating the misunderstanding, if
indeed that is what happened.
Blessings in Christ! (Acts 3:26),
Randy Leedy
>>> "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> 03/09/05 5:39 PM >>>
At 4:43 PM -0500 3/9/05, Jim West wrote:
>Randy Leedy wrote:
>
>>And I'm not
>>sure why a Medieval Greek's sense that the verb can be transitive
should
>>be thrown out as irrelevant just because of this time period. Do
>>Medievals typically manifest incompentence on the grammatical
mechanics
>>of Koine?
>>
>The point is that medieval greek texts are not Koine greek texts. To
>equate the grammar of the two is to equate modern American English
>grammar with Shakesperean grammar.
A curious argument this, seeming akin to the notion that Biblical Koine
is
a unique and sacred language, different from the Greek spoken and
written
by secular writers at the same time as it is different from the Greek
spoken and written before or after. My understanding of what Stephen
Carlson reported yesterday was that it was Byzantine lexicographers
that
glossed the Biblical Greek EXESTAKENAI as transitive active, not that
Byzantine writers were writing EXESTAKENAI and using it as transitive
active. If Byzantine scholars could not understand the Biblical Greek
text,
it seems wondrous indeed that we moderns, who are NOT native speakers
of
Biblical Koine NOR of Byzantine Greek, should ever hope to understand
Biblical Koine.
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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