[B-Greek] ARSENOKOITHS: Did I get this right?

Timrake at aol.com Timrake at aol.com
Tue Mar 15 08:26:07 EST 2005


I did not sign up for this list to be bombarded by histrionic posts such as 
this, Dr. Conrad. A dispassionate and objective discussion of historical facts 
is manifestly *not* what this post contains (and is *not* what is routinely 
offered by revisionists). Please end this thread.

Pr. Tim Rake
Praise Lutheran Church
Maryville, TN

In a message dated 03/15/2005 2:36:07 AM, j.weaks at tcu.edu writes:

<< 
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:19:08 -0500 Jonathan Robie
> <jonathan.robie at datadirect.com> writes:
>> ...someone on another list who claimed that ARSENOKOITHS is an 
>> obscure word, whose meaning is not
>> certain, but probably refers to some kind of male prostitute.

However, I tend to be skeptical of someone who professes simplicity 
where others have found complexity. Any word that occurs twice in the 
biblical record deserves some status of tentativeness. It is the 
questionable practice of offering easy answers to what are difficult 
questions.

>> BDAG indicates when a word's meaning is obscure, but it does not do
>> that here.

This skirts the issue. It is a masquerade for the true topic, namely, 
the texts of 1Co 6:9 and 1Ti 1:10 and whether the church can justify a 
doctrine of exclusion based upon same sex attraction and/or lifestyle. 
The lexical, morphological identification of a form is only one step... 
words don't have meanings, they have uses.

>> ...First, let's remember that our thinking may be different form that
>> of the first century...

There's no "may" about it. They were ignorant about so much of human 
nature then. As we are now.

>> ... Most of the people who
>> disagree with what you would find in standard scholarly works seem to 
>> be
>> advocates, and they seem to be rehashing arguments of Boswell,
>> arguments that have been refuted pretty strongly in the articles I
>> mention above and other places, and which no longer get much
>> credence on the biblical Greek mailing lists that I've participated 
>> on.

I hope I'm misunderstanding you when you say "advocates", that it is 
something other than the horrible accusation that those of use who read 
the text differently are just blinding ourselves because we are gay 
advocates. An appeal to the bulk of the evidence that surrounds you 
only testifies to the voices you choose to expose yourself to. Your 
characterization of "the state of things" is a straw man. Surely, if 
you are to be so bold as to bring up such a controversial topic in 
B-Greek, you should go to lengths to represent both sides in a fair 
way. It's not hard to find good stuff. My files are not accessible at 
the moment; I know D. Balch edited a book that has fair chapters 
dedicated to the issue.

On Mar 14, 2005, at 6:34 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
> I think the difference in length of the two articles s.v. ARSENOKOITHS 
> in
> BAGD and BDAG is accounted for by the rise to prominence of the
> homosexual agenda ...

You have GOT to be kidding me? Go to B-Greek-Fundies before you start 
using such polemical terms in this forum, please.

> ...If I understood your sometimes Byzantine twists, you finally arrive 
> at
> the conclusion that the word refers to one who engages in homosexual 
> acts
> rather than simply to one who functions as a cult prostitute.

It is a biased and diabolical step to draw such a conclusion that a 
particular lexical meaning excludes an intentionally specific usage, 
displaying a linguistical ignorance that neither of you would fall prey 
to were we talking about a word that referred to cutting down a trees, 
and whether or not the author was specifically referring to the 
practice of using an axe. Once you have arrived a range of lexical 
meanings, it is still the usage of a word that has any real relevance. 
A word for "chair" in a given context can be talking about a very 
specific type of chair.

I think it is quite likely that discussions of hot bed words simply can 
not take place on B-Greek, for it appears to one that the other begins 
their process with minds made up long before you begin your arguments.

Be that as it may, I refuse to concede that exclusionary, loaded, 
ostracizing, hateful, hurtful phrases such as "homosexual agenda" are 
acceptable on this forum.

In hopes that we can reconcile,
Joe Weaks >>




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