[B-Greek] Adjectival and Adverbial Prepositional Phrases in Biblical Greek

James Davis jamesdavis at focusonthescriptures.com
Sun May 15 21:38:18 EDT 2005


Again, I will try to clarify my earlier questions regarding Adjectival and Adverbial Phrases in Biblical Greek.

Earlier I really asked two questions regarding the following two sentences that were proposed for consideration by James Tauber:  'I saw the man with my binoculars'  and 'I saw the man with my hat.'  

My questions were: Can 'with my hat' and 'with my binoculars' be expressed in NT Greek as META + a genitive characterizing a noun, the object of a verb?  

If yes, the next question is: Suppose the noun 'man' in each phrase were replaced with the pronoun him, could the prepositional phrase META +  a genitive then characterize the  pronoun.  I would appeciate, very much, your comments.

And,  my next question concerned Luke 24:30: KAI EGENETO EN-TW- KATAKLIQHNAI AUTON MET' AUTWN, LABWN TON ARTON...   One interlinear  translation translates this as: "And it came to pass as reclined he with them, having taken the bread"...

Wallace says: "Basic uses of META With Genitive  a. Association/ Accompaniment: with, in company with."

He or him with them. My question was: Does MET' AUTWN characterize the pronoun AUTON?  

James Davis

On Sat, 14 May 2005 20:58:07 -0400 "Carl W. Conrad" wrote:


> No, MET' AUTWN does NOT construe with AUTON; AUTON is the accusative subject of the articular infinitive KATAKLIQHNAI; MET' AUTWN construes with KATAKLIQHNAI.

>I get the impression that you're taking your cue from the word-order of the interlinear. Interlinears are somewhat notorious for creating misconceptions about the construction of the Greek; unless one already has a pretty strong grounding in the language being translated in the interlinear version, this sort of translation which attempts literal English  equivalents of the Greek is misleading: the "he" of "as reclined he with them" is actually AUTON, the subject of the infinitive. Once again--as is almost always the case--the META + genitive prepositional phrase turns out to be adverbial, and in this instance it qualifies the verb.

Carl W. Conrad

Please undestand that this discussion regarding adjectival and adverbial phrases is being very helpful to me.  Each of your contributions is very greatly appreciated.    

I would like to receive some comments regarding my earlier questions:  "I asked two questions regarding the following two sentences that were proposed for consideration by James Tauber:  'I saw the man with my binoculars'  and 'I saw the man with my hat.  Again, my questions were: Can 'with my hat' and 'with my binoculars' be expressed in NT Greek as META + a genitive characterizing a noun, the object of a verb?  If yes, the next question is: suppose the noun 'man' in each phrase were replaced with the pronoun him, could the prepositional phrase META +  a genitive then characterize the  pronoun.  I would appeciate, very much, your comments."

Carl, regarding your response to my question concerning Luke 24:30, I have been influenced by the word-order of the "literal" interlinear translations.  I have also been influenced by the word-order of English.  

You may recall what Oun Kwon wrote on 13 May 2005 20:12:

"From my professional life, I remember the two prepositional phrases as the most commonly overused expression in writings in the field of medicine.   One is 'with ~' and another one is 'due to ~'.  It reads like everything is 'with something' and everything is caused 'due to something'. 

Luke 9:39 'with foaming' is a typical example.  Usually the context tells us what it means, even without getting down to the grammatical or syntactical analysis. 

As to the example of 'I saw a man with my binocular.'  This case, the listeners usually take the with-phrase connected to the immediate antecedent.  If I want to mean the other way, I had better put the phrase in the beginning of the sentence, breaking it away from 'man' and bringing it close to I."

Regarding Luke 24:30, the interlinear translation of the NASB-NIV Parallel  New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1993) says: 
KAI EGENETO EN TW  KATAKLIQHNAI AUTON MET' AUTWN, LABWN TON ARTON...  "And it came to pass in the to recline (as he reclined) him with them, taking the loaf"...  

Now, to my next question:  I understand AUTON in Luke 24:30  is the accusative subject of the articular infinitive KATAKLIQHNAI.  But, is it NOT possible for MET' AUTWN to be construed with either the infinitive or AUTON - It came to pass as he reclined with them, taking the loaf,  or as Wallace suggests that Basic Uses of META with a Genitive means: It came to pass as he (in company) with them reclined, taking the loaf?  

Is there a rule that governs this?  Or is it as James Tauber said on May 13, 2005: "Whether a particular prepositional  phrase is adverbial or adjectival is, I suspect, almost always something that has to be inferred from the context rather than there being any syntactic rules."  

It would seem to me that following the word-order of the Greek you could have "the with phrase connected to the immediate antecedent" in English as it is in Greek and it would make good sense.

I would greatly appreciate your comments.

James Davis
jdavis at focusonthescriptures.com    












 
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