[B-Greek] 1st John 2:22

kgraham0938 at comcast.net kgraham0938 at comcast.net
Tue Nov 1 09:51:12 EST 2005


@ Dr.Carl & Richard:

I understand what you guys are saying, but the thing that is confusing is this.

What does BDAG means when it says on pg 132 of APNEOMAI.

1 Jn 2:22 w. hOTI foll. : a. hOTI 'IHS. OUK ESTIN hO CHRISTOS
" the neg. is redundant as Demosth 9, 54...."

--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> For what it's worth, I have to say that I really think Richard is 
> right about this. I don't think that ARNEOMAI works like OU FHMI in 
> the sense "deny the truth 
> of the proposition that" -- and when OU FHMI works that way, it's 
> usually with a subject accusative and an infinitive sort of 
> complement, not a substantive hOTI clause. Understanding the hOTI 
> clause as a citation makes far better sense of the phrasing and 
> doesn't require understanding a double negative. 
> 
> On Nov 1, 2005, at 8:44 AM, Richard Ghilardi wrote: 
> 
> > Hello Folks, 
> > 
> > TIS ESTIN hO YEUSTHS EI MH hO ARNOUMENOS hOTI IHSOUS OUK ESTIN hO 
> > XRISTOS; 
> > 
> > I would prefer taking hOTI here as recitative introducing direct 
> > speech 
> > rather than seeing a redundant negative. (I don't know of any other 
> > place 
> > in the GNT where there is such a redundant negative.) So I render it: 
> > 
> > Who is the liar who makes this denial: "Jesus is not the Christ"? 
> > 
> > Yours in His grace, 
> > 
> > Richard Ghilardi - qodeshlayhvh at juno.com 
> > New Haven, Connecticut USA 
> > 
> > ================================================== 
> > 
> > On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 02:32:24 +0000 kgraham0938 at comcast.net writes: 
> > 
> >> @clare: 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Hey Clare, are you asking about EI MH (if not) or are you asking 
> >> about hO APNOUMENOS and OUK ESTIN hO CRISTOS? 
> >> 
> >> liteally "the one who denies that Jesus is not the Messiah." If 
> >> this is the case the negative is simply redundant and I don't think 
> >> you need to translate it twice. 
> >> 
> >> So "who is the liar if not (EI MH) the one who denies that Jesus is 
> >> the Messiah?" 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> Kelton Graham 
> >> KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net 
> >> 
> >> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> In 1st John 2:22 I'm confused by the double negatives. Is it 
> >>> 
> >> possible to 
> >> 
> >>> translate the verse this way: 
> >>> 
> >>> "Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is 
> >>> 
> >> the Christ?" 
> >> 
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks, 
> >>> Clare Arnold 
> >>> 
> > --- 
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek 
> > B-Greek mailing list 
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org 
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek 
> > 
> 
> 
> Carl W. Conrad 
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus) 
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243 
> cwconrad2 at mac.com 
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/ 
> 
> --- 
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek 
> B-Greek mailing list 
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