[B-Greek] John 7:15 re GRAMMATA

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at ioa.com
Tue Nov 1 13:23:09 EST 2005


On Nov 1, 2005, at 1:04 PM, Dan Gleason wrote:

> John 7:15 re GRAMMATA
>
> Thomas J. Kraus wrote:
> Dear Colleagues, I am writing a brief study about the phrase PWS  
> hOUTOS GRAMMATA  OIDEN MH MEMAQHKWS (how does this one know letters  
> without having learned  [them]) in reference to (il)literacy in  
> late antiquity (as I once did for Acts  4:13 on the basis of  
> formulae in documentary papyri).
>
> Dr Carl Conrad answered: what the Greek text itself says doesn't  
> really seem to be in dispute.
>
> DG: I looked at the greek text for this verse today and I am having  
> a problem with the last part of it. Is the following a correct  
> translation? ...
>
> Jn 7:15 ... Therefore the Jews were marveling, saying ...
>
> PWS hOUTOS GRAMMATA OIDEN MH MEMAQHKWS.
> How does this man know LETTERS not having known them.

MEMAQHKWS doesn't mean "having known" but "having learned." The  
question posed is "How this fellow can read, since he hasn't been  
schooled?" -- or, if you prefer it in the style of the word-for-word  
interlinear text: "how this-one letters knows, not having learned."  
But the sense is: "How can this guy be so well-versed in scripture,  
since he's clearly untutored?" Jesus' answer is appropriate to that  
sense, "I didn't get my teaching from scribes or rabbis, I got it  
from the one who sent me."

> Re the word GRAMMATA,  a greek lexicon says
> "to write, with reference to the form of the letters, to delineate  
> (or form) letters on a tablet, parchment, paper, or other material."
>
> Is the text referring to Hebrew Letters or Greek Letters (or both)  
> which in turn points to some kind of special teaching (a formula or  
> superstition like letters equaling numbers).
>
> My translation takes into consideration John 7:31 where some in the  
> crowd were saying about his teaching that "The Christ" (xristos)  
> would do more SIGNS (shmeia) than Jesus.
>
> Dan Gleason
>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/




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