[B-Greek] Deponents Was Re: KEIMENH Matt 5:14

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at ioa.com
Wed Nov 2 09:08:18 EST 2005


For what it's worth, my current thinking about ancient Greek voice is  
set forth at

	http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/GrkVc.html

There are links on that page to the November 2002 PDF file setting  
forth my
views as of that date; I intend to incorporate the newer thoughts on the
page listed above into a revised version of that November 2002 document
along with considerably more documentation. Also on that web page is a
link to a short paper "Active, Middle, and Passive: Understanding  
Ancient
Greek Voice" -- this was intended to help beginning students make sense
of the unwieldy presentation of the subject set forth in most  
traditional
primers (and even some intermediate reference works).

On Nov 2, 2005, at 7:45 AM, Lorinda Hoover and Jim Mossman wrote:

> I realize I'm behind the times in responding to this, but it the  
> question
> around deponents in this thread reminded me of an discussion I had  
> several
> times with another pastor with whom I used to translate Greek and  
> Hebrew.
> It always seemed to me that the the category of "deponent verbs" was
> designed to help English speakers understand verbs that were  
> passive in
> Greek but whose meaning was expressed in active voice in English.   
> This
> discussion arose in part because my friend tended to treat deponent  
> verbs as
> a voice distinct from passive, active, or middle.  I've always  
> assumed that
> "native" Koine Greek speakers wouldn't have made a conscious  
> distinction
> between a "deponent" passive and a "true" passive.  Am I correct in  
> this
> assumption?
>
>
> on 10/31/05 3:24 PM, Carl W. Conrad at cwconrad at ioa.com wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2005, at 3:37 PM, kgraham0938 at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>> Just double checking myself, I was talking to a friend about OU
>>> DUNATAI POLIS KRUBHNAI EPANW OPOUS KEIMENH of Matt 5:14.
>>>
>>> He wanted to argue that KEIMAI here is passive, I told him that
>>> KEIMAI here is deponent because it is intransitive therefore it
>>> could not be a passive.  But rather pointed to location, "a city
>>> located on a hill..."
>>>
>>> The only reason we were discussing this is because he wants to make
>>> the passive mean something in his sermon to the effect of God
>>> planting us etc.  Anyway, way I correct?  Is KEIMAI here deponent?
>>
>> It's traditionally categorized as a deponent, but that tradition is,
>> as I have repeatedly urged, not worth retaining. KEIMAI is a verb
>> that only appears in the middle voice; it means "lie" or "rest" --
>> but it serves idiomatically as a perfect passive of TIQHMI, so that
>> KEIMENH in the passage here means "lying upon" with the implication
>> that it has been deliberatedly situated upon the hill.
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
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>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/




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