[B-Greek] Translating Mark 1:4 and 1:8 (revised)
Dan Gleason
dan-bgreek at hotmail.com
Thu Nov 3 16:36:28 EST 2005
Dr Conrad
Thank you for the very candid and constructive critisism. I admit, I may be
wrong on the way I translated Holy Spirit but the more important issue is
how I translated the word baptism.
Regarding my interlinear approach, I think translating the greek verb BAPTW
as a primary word pointing to "immersion" in all it's cognates rather than
to an alternate connotation such as "ritual washing for the remission of
sins" leads to seeing the Greek text in a new light.
For example, in my Mk 1:4 post the theme of immersing in the wilderness
points to Moses, Elias, and Jesus who were all "immersed in the wilderness"
- one for 40 yrs, the other two for 40 days. Immersion also points to
Baptism (as washing) then to "Imersion in Water" (a form of Chistening for
people), then on to "immersion in the Holy Spirit" (Mk 1:8) The way I see
it, the word "immersion" does double duty whereas baptism does not.
Dan Gleason
>From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at ioa.com>
>To: Dan Gleason <dan-bgreek at hotmail.com>
>CC: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Translating Mark 1:8 (revised)
>Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:52:25 -0500
>
>Dan, you've made perfectly clear that you intend to persist with this
>"interlinear" mode of transliteration despite the fact that several
>respondents have called attention to its inaccurate representation of the
>sense of the Greek. So here "immerse" for "BAPTIZW" has been faulted by
>several respondents as inaccurate certainy for the second verb form here
>(BAPTISEI), and while you might think "a Holy Spirit" accurately
>represents the Greek text PNEUMATI hAGIWi, what you're deriving from the
>Greek is pidgin-English rather than an equivalent of what the Greek text
>says. What's wrong with this "interlinear" style of "translation" is that
>it's based on an assumption that the "forest" of a sequence of discourse
>is no less and no more than but exactly equal to the sum of the "trees" of
>words inside that sequence. I think that's been stated in different ways
>in several of the responses to your idiosyncratic renderings of Marcan
>texts, but I felt it was worth reiterating "yet once more again," despite
>the fact that you've made it obvious that you intend to go on doing it
>this way.
>
>On Nov 3, 2005, at 2:14 PM, Dan Gleason wrote:
>
>>Translating Mark 1:8 (revised)
>>
>>EGW EBAPTISA UMAS UDATI
>>I immersed you in Water ...
>>
>>AUTOS DE BAPTISEI UMAS EN PNEUMATI AGIWi
>>but he will-immerse you in <a-Holy Spirit > correct to "a Holy Spirit." .
>>
>>Is this translation accurate?
>>______________________
>>
>>Based on the feedback I have recieved re PNEUMATI AGIWi (an antherous
>>noun modified by an adjective) my new translation is "a Holy Spirit."
>>In all similar circumstances I will never use "a-" and connect it to the
>>noun again.
>>
>>However, I don't think there is anything wrong with my use of the hyphen
>>for embedded words.
>>I don't see anything wrong with this interlinear approach.
>>
>>I have read the feedback about why using "the" instead of "a" with HS is
>>preferred but I am not yet convinced.
>>
>>When I first posted, I gave the following reason for using the indefinite
>>article:
>>The term Holy Spirit is being anartharously introduced for the first
>>time.
>>Something like a character in a play who is making his first appearance.
>>The audience who are "in the know" know it refers to God ... but for the
>>pagans in the audience ...
>>Is it possible that an indefinite translation was intended until the
>>character was more fully developed in subsequent verses?
>>
>>Is there anything wrong with my reasoning here?
>>
>>Dan Gleason
>>
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>
>
>Carl W. Conrad
>Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
>1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>cwconrad2 at mac.com
>WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
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