[B-Greek] Eph. 2.8-10

virgil newkirk virgilsalvage1 at msn.com
Fri Nov 11 12:37:04 EST 2005


Adam,

Concerning Eph 2:8...

Although personally I would adjust your more wooden rendering a bit, I really do think you have an accurate hold on what the perfect passive participle is representing. The perfect speaks of something having occurred at a past point in time that produced a certain result and that that result has continued up to the very present moment. I really like your "you stand saved." I would do the following with your wooden translation: "by grace you are ones having been saved and that remains so even to this moment; this has happened by means of what is faith."

Kenneth Wuest taught Greek at the Moody Bible Institute and eventually a complete translation of the New Testament was accomplished by means of his having done complete word studies of the books of the N.T. That translation is called The New Testament..An Expanded Translation and I thought yuu might appreciate how Wuest renders Eph 2:8 which is:

" For by the grace have you been saved in time past completely, through faith, with the present result that your salvation persists through present time."

I agree with you that most translations make it sound like Paul is writing about the inception of salvation but of course he has been speaking of much more than that in the preceding verses and his use of GAR in verse 8 indicates that what he is now saying is a further explanation of at least the previous 4 or 5 verses of which verse 7 is...  again referring to Wuest's Expanded Translation:

" In order that he might exhibit for His own glory in the ages that will pile themselves one upon another in continuous succession, the surpassing wealth of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus THi   ** GAR **(to further explain I would add ) XARITI ESTE SESWiSMENOI DIA PISTEWS

The GAR in verse 10 refers us back to the riches mentioned in the previous verses. No wonder Paul utilizes the participle in the perfect....for an amazing  "state of salvation" exists for the Ephesians by then !



Virgil Newkirk
Salt Lake City


----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Adam Myers<mailto:adamm at s1b.net> 
  To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org> 
  Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:46 PM
  Subject: [B-Greek] Eph. 2.8-10


  I have 2 questions from Eph. 2.8-10 as a second-year Greek student teaching
  through Ephesians in a Sunday School class.  The first is from v. 8

  TH GAR XARITI ESTE SESWSMENOI DIA PISTEWS

  >From what I have learned so far, coupling EIMI with the perfect participle
  would put a great deal of emphasis on the continuous nature of salvation.
  Most translations seem to emphasize the inception of salvation, but it seems
  to me that it would be more accurate to say something like "by grace you
  stand saved"  or the more wooden "by grace you remain as one having been
  saved through faith."  Is the rookie missing something, or is this accurate?

   

  The second question is from verse 10, in which EPI ERGOIS AGAQOIS is always
  translated "for good works" or "unto good works."  BDAG does list EPI +
  dative as indicating object or purpose.but not until def. 16.  Wallace (in
  "Basics of New Testament Syntax") & BDAG def. 6 show EPI + dative as
  indicating "basis for a state of being, action or result.  Would it be wrong
  to translate this as "created in Christ Jesus on the basis of good works."?
  This seems to fit the context of the book if we view the "good works" as
  having been done by God, not us.

   

  Thanks,

  Adam

   

  Adam Myers

  adamm at s1b.net<mailto:adamm at s1b.net>

  *I used to be indecisive...but now I'm not so sure.*

   

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