[B-Greek] John 18:37 EK THS ALHQEIAS
Webb
webb at selftest.net
Mon Nov 14 19:17:30 EST 2005
Dear Elizabeth,
The context can be considered suggestive of the sense I was discussing:
Jn. 8:42-47
Jesus said to them, "If God were your father, you would love me. Because I
came from God and I've arrived here (EK TOU QEOU EXHLQON KAI hHKW). After
all, I certainly didn't come on my own (AP' EMAUTOU)--it was he that sent
me."
[The sense of trajectory rather than relationship is absolutely unmistakable
here.]
"Why can't [lit. "don't"] you understand my teaching? Because you can't hear
my word. You are from (EK) your father the Devil, and it's your father's
cravings (pl. EPIQUMIA) that you want to carry out."
[This can be taken in the sense you propose, but notice that Jesus can also
just as easily be taken to mean that they are emissaries from the Devil and
that they have been sent to carry out what he craves--which is to destroy
Jesus. That is, after all, what ends up happening, following on "the Devil
entered him" (Judas)]
"That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he doesn't stand in the
truth, because truth isn't in him.
[Once again, there is the spatial metaphor. The truth is like a territory on
whose soil the Devil has never stood.]
Whenever he tells lies (hOTAN LALHi TO YEUDOS), he's speaking from (EK) his
own nature, because he's a liar, and so is his father [?!]. But because I am
telling the truth, you don't believe me. Which one of you (EX hUMWN--second
sense) criticizes me for sinning? If I'm telling the truth, why don't you
believe me? The person who is from [EK] God hears God's words. That's why
you can't hear--because you're not from [EK] God."
[The first of these EK QEOU statements could easily, in John's terminology,
be referring to Jesus himself (Jn 5:30), in which case the sense is, "If you
had come from God as I have, you would hear God's words as I do".]
I think your sense is possible--but the key question is: is there any
unwelcome consequence of understanding the sense as I have?
Peace,
Webb Mealy
-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth Kline [mailto:kline-dekooning at earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 12:47 PM
To: webb at selftest.net
Cc: 'B-Greek'
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 18:37 EK THS ALHQEIAS
On Nov 14, 2005, at 11:10 AM, Webb wrote:
> I think that John's Gospel and the Johannine Letters use EK in a
> distinctive
> way that most often expresses a sense of trajectory. For example,
> Jesus
> comes from (EK) God ...
EK/EX like APO can be used to indicate provenance personal and/or
familial and John 8:44-47 shows that EK THS ALHQEIAS implies EK TOU
QEOU and is the antithesis of EK TOU PATROS TOU DIABOLOU ... who EN
THi ALHQEIAi OUK ESTHKEN, hOTI OUK ESTIN ALHQEIA EN AUTWi. hOTAN
LALHi TO YEUDOS, EK TWN IDIWN LALEI, hOTI YEUSTHS ESTIN KAI hO PATHR
AUTOU.
Elizabeth Kline
Jn 8:44 hUMEIS EK TOU PATROS TOU DIABOLOU ESTE KAI TAS EPIQUMIAS TOU
PATROS hUMWN QELETE POIEIN. EKEINOS ANQRWPOKTONOS HN AP' ARCHS KAI EN
THi ALHQEIAi OUK ESTHKEN, hOTI OUK ESTIN ALHQEIA EN AUTWi. hOTAN
LALHi TO YEUDOS, EK TWN IDIWN LALEI, hOTI YEUSTHS ESTIN KAI hO PATHR
AUTOU. 45 EGW DE hOTI THN ALHQEIAN LEGW, OU PISTEUETE MOI. 46 TIS
EX hUMWN ELEGCEI ME PERI hAMARTIAS; EI ALHQEIAN LEGW, DIA TI hUMEIS
OU PISTEUETE MOI; 47 hO WN EK TOU QEOU TA hRHMATA TOU QEOU AKOUEI:
DIA TOUTO hUMEIS OUK AKOUETE, hOTI EK TOU QEOU OUK ESTE.
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