[B-Greek] Mark 3:13-19 Translation Issues

George F Somsel gfsomsel at juno.com
Tue Nov 15 07:34:33 EST 2005


On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:29:56 -0600 "Dan Gleason" <dan-bgreek at hotmail.com>
writes:
> Mark 3:13-19 Translation Issues
> 
> Here is a traditional translation:
> 
> He went up into the mountain,
> and called to himself those whom he wanted,
> and they went to him.
> He appointed twelve, that they might be with him,
> and that he might send them out to preach,
> and to have authority <to heal sicknesses and> to cast out demons:
> Simon, to whom he gave the name PETER;
> James the son of Zebedee; John, the brother of James, and he 
> surnamed them 
> Boanerges, which means, Sons of Thunder;
> Andrew; Philip; Bartholomew; Matthew; Thomas; James, the son of 
> Alphaeus; 
> Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot;
> and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. He came into a house.
> (World English Bible)
> 
> _______________
> 
> *** Here is my translation of the Greek text for which I have four 
> questions
> 
> And he ascended into (EIS) the Mountain ...
> and he called to him whom he himself wished  ...
> and they went away towards (PROS = in front of?) him.
> 
> And he made (EPOIHSEN) Twelve ... [whom also he named apostles] ...
> so-that they-might be with him ...
> and so-that he-might send them to proclaim ...
> and to have authority to cast out the Demons.
> And he made (EPOIHSEN) the Twelve.
> 
> And he layed on (EPIQHKEN) a name to-Simon ... the STONE (PETRON).
> And James, the-son of Zebedee ...
> and John, the brother of James ...
> and he layed on (a name to them ... Boanerges ... which is “Sons of 
> 
> Thunder.”
> And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, 
> and James 
> the-son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean.
> And Judas Iscariot who also betrayed him. And he goes into a house 
> ...
> ________________
> 
> Text questions:
> 
> 1) I think "made" for epoihsen is just as accurate as "appointed."
> Jesus may be "appointing" but the author of the gospel is "making" 
> the 
> number "twelve" into a title, a term he will use a lot in future 
> verses.
> Here is an observation, I see Mark and Jesus "making" the twelve into 
> an 
> "assembly."
> Comments?
> 
> 2) I think "layed on a name" is preferrable to "gave a name" because 
> we are 
> talking about placing a physical object on someone (BDAG).
> In this case it's a metaphorical object called a stone.
> Comments?
> 
> 3) I think "the STONE" (BDAG) is an infinitely better "dynamic" 
> translation 
> than "PETER."
> The name Peter is a phonetic translation - it is the only English 
> name that 
> most closely sounds like Petros.
> Maybe there was a very good reason Jesus gave Simon the name of this 
> 
> particular non living object.
> After all, 1 Pet 2 contains numerous stone metaphors such as "living 
> 
> stones." Is this a coincidence?
> Who first made this decision (and when) to translate the word Petros 
> as 
> Peter and why has it persisted so long? Has anyone ever disagreed 
> with this 
> tradition?
> Here is another observation, after this verse, Mark only refers to 
> this 
> disciple by his title, the "Stone" - although in verse 14:37 the 
> reader is 
> reminded by Jesus that he still owns the name Simon.
> Is there a good reason why we shouldn't call a Stone a Stone?
> 
> 4) Any other comments on the above translation?
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> 
> Answer these questions OFF LIST
> 
> 1) Does anyone see a connection with the titles "the stone" and 
> "sons of 
> thunder." Or the "stone" with all twelve disciples?
> 
> 2) All 12 were given authority to cast out demons including Judas 
> who is 
> mentioned last. If the first eleven come from Galilee and Judas 
> Iscariot is 
> a Man of Kerioth from Judea, isn't Judas "cast out" geographically 
> from the 
> 12 to begin with? Even by the way the text is composed he seems to 
> be "cast 
> out." Do you think Judas is already secretly possessed with a demon? 
> Can the 
> info about Judas being a betrayer be a hint?
> 
> 3) Verse 19 ends with "And he goes into a house." Ok - from the 
> "context" of 
> the following story the pronoun "he" seems to mean Jesus. This is 
> not 
> obvious to me. Could it also mean Judas or Jesus ... one or the 
> other or 
> both? Anyone see a connection between Judas and this "house?" More 
> on this 
> in a future post ...
> 
> Dan Gleason
______________

I would suggest that you go learn Greek before you proceed to attempt to
translate the GoMk and comment on it.  I really think you are deficient
in your understanding of the language.

george
gfsomsel
___________



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