[B-Greek] Mark 3:13-19 Translation Issues
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at juno.com
Tue Nov 15 07:34:33 EST 2005
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:29:56 -0600 "Dan Gleason" <dan-bgreek at hotmail.com>
writes:
> Mark 3:13-19 Translation Issues
>
> Here is a traditional translation:
>
> He went up into the mountain,
> and called to himself those whom he wanted,
> and they went to him.
> He appointed twelve, that they might be with him,
> and that he might send them out to preach,
> and to have authority <to heal sicknesses and> to cast out demons:
> Simon, to whom he gave the name PETER;
> James the son of Zebedee; John, the brother of James, and he
> surnamed them
> Boanerges, which means, Sons of Thunder;
> Andrew; Philip; Bartholomew; Matthew; Thomas; James, the son of
> Alphaeus;
> Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot;
> and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. He came into a house.
> (World English Bible)
>
> _______________
>
> *** Here is my translation of the Greek text for which I have four
> questions
>
> And he ascended into (EIS) the Mountain ...
> and he called to him whom he himself wished ...
> and they went away towards (PROS = in front of?) him.
>
> And he made (EPOIHSEN) Twelve ... [whom also he named apostles] ...
> so-that they-might be with him ...
> and so-that he-might send them to proclaim ...
> and to have authority to cast out the Demons.
> And he made (EPOIHSEN) the Twelve.
>
> And he layed on (EPIQHKEN) a name to-Simon ... the STONE (PETRON).
> And James, the-son of Zebedee ...
> and John, the brother of James ...
> and he layed on (a name to them ... Boanerges ... which is Sons of
>
> Thunder.
> And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas,
> and James
> the-son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean.
> And Judas Iscariot who also betrayed him. And he goes into a house
> ...
> ________________
>
> Text questions:
>
> 1) I think "made" for epoihsen is just as accurate as "appointed."
> Jesus may be "appointing" but the author of the gospel is "making"
> the
> number "twelve" into a title, a term he will use a lot in future
> verses.
> Here is an observation, I see Mark and Jesus "making" the twelve into
> an
> "assembly."
> Comments?
>
> 2) I think "layed on a name" is preferrable to "gave a name" because
> we are
> talking about placing a physical object on someone (BDAG).
> In this case it's a metaphorical object called a stone.
> Comments?
>
> 3) I think "the STONE" (BDAG) is an infinitely better "dynamic"
> translation
> than "PETER."
> The name Peter is a phonetic translation - it is the only English
> name that
> most closely sounds like Petros.
> Maybe there was a very good reason Jesus gave Simon the name of this
>
> particular non living object.
> After all, 1 Pet 2 contains numerous stone metaphors such as "living
>
> stones." Is this a coincidence?
> Who first made this decision (and when) to translate the word Petros
> as
> Peter and why has it persisted so long? Has anyone ever disagreed
> with this
> tradition?
> Here is another observation, after this verse, Mark only refers to
> this
> disciple by his title, the "Stone" - although in verse 14:37 the
> reader is
> reminded by Jesus that he still owns the name Simon.
> Is there a good reason why we shouldn't call a Stone a Stone?
>
> 4) Any other comments on the above translation?
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Answer these questions OFF LIST
>
> 1) Does anyone see a connection with the titles "the stone" and
> "sons of
> thunder." Or the "stone" with all twelve disciples?
>
> 2) All 12 were given authority to cast out demons including Judas
> who is
> mentioned last. If the first eleven come from Galilee and Judas
> Iscariot is
> a Man of Kerioth from Judea, isn't Judas "cast out" geographically
> from the
> 12 to begin with? Even by the way the text is composed he seems to
> be "cast
> out." Do you think Judas is already secretly possessed with a demon?
> Can the
> info about Judas being a betrayer be a hint?
>
> 3) Verse 19 ends with "And he goes into a house." Ok - from the
> "context" of
> the following story the pronoun "he" seems to mean Jesus. This is
> not
> obvious to me. Could it also mean Judas or Jesus ... one or the
> other or
> both? Anyone see a connection between Judas and this "house?" More
> on this
> in a future post ...
>
> Dan Gleason
______________
I would suggest that you go learn Greek before you proceed to attempt to
translate the GoMk and comment on it. I really think you are deficient
in your understanding of the language.
george
gfsomsel
___________
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