[B-Greek] Mark 3:13-19 Translation Issues

Revdpickrel at wmconnect.com Revdpickrel at wmconnect.com
Tue Nov 15 14:08:43 EST 2005


Hi Dan,

I don't follow your thoughts on Judas and BGreek.  I think you would do 
better understanding Judas through the eyes of the Psalmist, see Ps 109 and compare 
it to your current thoughts on Judas.

Rev. Doug Pickrel, Litt.D.
Tejas Valley
San Antonio, Texas



> 
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:29:56 -0600 "Dan Gleason" <dan-bgreek at hotmail.com>
> writes:
> > Mark 3:13-19 Translation Issues
> > 
> > Here is a traditional translation:
> > 
> > He went up into the mountain,
> > and called to himself those whom he wanted,
> > and they went to him.
> > He appointed twelve, that they might be with him,
> > and that he might send them out to preach,
> > and to have authority <to heal sicknesses and> to cast out demons:
> > Simon, to whom he gave the name PETER;
> > James the son of Zebedee; John, the brother of James, and he 
> > surnamed them 
> > Boanerges, which means, Sons of Thunder;
> > Andrew; Philip; Bartholomew; Matthew; Thomas; James, the son of 
> > Alphaeus; 
> > Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot;
> > and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. He came into a house.
> > (World English Bible)
> > 
> > _______________
> > 
> > *** Here is my translation of the Greek text for which I have four 
> > questions
> > 
> > And he ascended into (EIS) the Mountain ...
> > and he called to him whom he himself wished  ...
> > and they went away towards (PROS = in front of?) him.
> > 
> > And he made (EPOIHSEN) Twelve ... [whom also he named apostles] ...
> > so-that they-might be with him ...
> > and so-that he-might send them to proclaim ...
> > and to have authority to cast out the Demons.
> > And he made (EPOIHSEN) the Twelve.
> > 
> > And he layed on (EPIQHKEN) a name to-Simon ... the STONE (PETRON).
> > And James, the-son of Zebedee ...
> > and John, the brother of James ...
> > and he layed on (a name to them ... Boanerges ... which is “Sons of 

> > 
> > Thunder.”

> > And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, 
> > and James 
> > the-son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean.
> > And Judas Iscariot who also betrayed him. And he goes into a house 
> > ...
> > ________________
> > 
> > Text questions:
> > 
> > 1) I think "made" for epoihsen is just as accurate as "appointed."
> > Jesus may be "appointing" but the author of the gospel is "making" 
> > the 
> > number "twelve" into a title, a term he will use a lot in future 
> > verses.
> > Here is an observation, I see Mark and Jesus "making" the twelve into 
> > an 
> > "assembly."
> > Comments?
> > 
> > 2) I think "layed on a name" is preferrable to "gave a name" because 
> > we are 
> > talking about placing a physical object on someone (BDAG).
> > In this case it's a metaphorical object called a stone.
> > Comments?
> > 
> > 3) I think "the STONE" (BDAG) is an infinitely better "dynamic" 
> > translation 
> > than "PETER."
> > The name Peter is a phonetic translation - it is the only English 
> > name that 
> > most closely sounds like Petros.
> > Maybe there was a very good reason Jesus gave Simon the name of this 
> > 
> > particular non living object.
> > After all, 1 Pet 2 contains numerous stone metaphors such as "living 
> > 
> > stones." Is this a coincidence?
> > Who first made this decision (and when) to translate the word Petros 
> > as 
> > Peter and why has it persisted so long? Has anyone ever disagreed 
> > with this 
> > tradition?
> > Here is another observation, after this verse, Mark only refers to 
> > this 
> > disciple by his title, the "Stone" - although in verse 14:37 the 
> > reader is 
> > reminded by Jesus that he still owns the name Simon.
> > Is there a good reason why we shouldn't call a Stone a Stone?
> > 
> > 4) Any other comments on the above translation?
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Answer these questions OFF LIST
> > 
> > 1) Does anyone see a connection with the titles "the stone" and 
> > "sons of 
> > thunder." Or the "stone" with all twelve disciples?
> > 
> > 2) All 12 were given authority to cast out demons including Judas 
> > who is 
> > mentioned last. If the first eleven come from Galilee and Judas 
> > Iscariot is 
> > a Man of Kerioth from Judea, isn't Judas "cast out" geographically 
> > from the 
> > 12 to begin with? Even by the way the text is composed he seems to 
> > be "cast 
> > out." Do you think Judas is already secretly possessed with a demon? 
> > Can the 
> > info about Judas being a betrayer be a hint?
> > 
> > 3) Verse 19 ends with "And he goes into a house." Ok - from the 
> > "context" of 
> > the following story the pronoun "he" seems to mean Jesus. This is 
> > not 
> > obvious to me. Could it also mean Judas or Jesus ... one or the 
> > other or 
> > both? Anyone see a connection between Judas and this "house?" More 
> > on this 
> > in a future post ...
> > 
> > Dan Gleason
> 






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