[B-Greek] historical present tense in romans

Mitch Larramore mitchlarramore at yahoo.com
Sat Oct 8 14:29:22 EDT 2005


Dr. Buth:

On this

Pastor Mishoe wrote;

> Having said the above, let me add a comment on one
> response:
> > Your definition should probably be refined a
> little. I
> wouldn't call it a present tense verb expressing a
> "past" action. It is a present tense verb used in a
> historical context (the temporal reference point is
> the historical event itself, not the time of
> writing/speaking). And, it does not express PAST
> action, but rather CONTEMPORANEOUS action within its
> surroundings. The Present Tense denotes "in progess"
> action. So, the HPT describes some other event that
> is
> "in progress" DURING the historical event.>


And you responded with:

> I would say just the opposite, though I agree that
> the historic present 
> does not "express" [i.e. signal] the PAST. If you
> read through the 
> contexts in the gospels, not to mention other
> literature, you will find 
> that the historic present is used for PERFECTIVE
> events, that is events 
> that are completed within their context. They are
> not contemporaneous in 
> a technical sense and are not "in progress" during
> the surrounding events. 
> The historic present cuts AGAINST its aspectual
> grain, as well as against 
> its temporal grain. It is a literary feature that is
> best described as an 
> emotive device for making the story 'real, actual'.
> Like in English: he 
> goes [=he said], . . .  and then the other guy goes
> ". . . "  In other 
> words, the historic present in Greek takes a
> completed, past action and 
> describes it AS THOUGH it were in progress. 
> OUTWS AUTW EXRHSANTO KAI OUTWS EGRAPSAN AUTON.


Could you clarify where exactly you and Pastor Mishoe
differ on this topic (HPT)? You start off with a
position that suggests you hold an "opposite" view,
but then you seem to conclude with the same words as
Pastor Mishoe. (His lasted response seems to indicate
this.)



Mitch Larramore
Sugar Land, Texas


	
		
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