[B-Greek] Origen hypostasis
Stephen Payne
spayneop at hotmail.com
Mon Oct 10 12:01:59 EDT 2005
Hi all,
I don't know the works of Origen well enough to know how well he knew Latin
or if he was familiar with Tertullian's writings (I understand he spent a
brief period in Rome). These two men are somewhat contemporary, although,
of the two, Origen is slightly later. Tertullian's Adversus Praxean is
known to have been written during Tertullian's Montanist phase (circa
212AD). Origen's principle work involving the Trinity is his De principiis
(its Latin name).
When you say "'person' or an individual being", how do you understand that?
Yes, Latin "persona(e)" is roughly equivalent of Greek hUPOSTASIS(-ES).
Where we have to be careful is the use of "individual". The citations
supplied by Harold Holmyard (HH below) are accurate. In metaphysical
discourse, "real/actual being" is distinct from "being of thought" -- where
"being of thought" means something like "the essence of a thought" or "a
mental image." For example, humans can conceive of a unicorn -- we can
"think" about a unicorn. As such, the actual "thought" has substance, that
is, the "thought" really exists. The unicorn, on the other hand, has no
correspondence in reality, thus it does NOT have "real being."
The classical Latin term "persona" means "a character" or "an identity"
(such as, "dramatis personae" -- in fact, the origin of "persona" in
classical Latin is theatrical, since "persona" meant "mask"). To my
knowledge, neither "persona" nor "hUPOSTASIS" necessarily contain a notion
of individuality. My understanding of Origen is that he believed the
Trinity to be One Being with THREE separate masks/identities. Therefore, I
don't believe that it is appropriate to state that Origen believed in three
"individual beings."
I hope the above is helpful.
Regards,
Stephen Payne
Taylors, SC
> > I dont have the Greek of this text of Origen
> >(Fragm in Jo. 37 ) , however , Origen said about
> >the Holy Spirit that " is an active
> >substantial being" . If he used "hUPOSTASIS" ,
> >perhaps it mean "person" or an individual being.
> >For example , Tertulian (That is before Origen)
> >used the term "personae" for the Holy Spirit.
> >It is possible that Origen read Tertulian (Adv
> >.Preaxeam) and translated hUPOSTASIS to
> >personae Latin .
> >Is it possible ?.
>
>HH: I'm not an expert. Perhaps someone else would
>know. It seems to be used that way in later
>Church thinking about the Trinity, but I don't
>know about Origen. According to LSJ, the word
>hUPOSTASIS is used to show substantial existence,
>and with IDIOS it could indicate a separate
>existence. BAGD adds the idea of "actual being."
>They give "real being" for hUPOSTASIS in Heb 1:3.
>(Concerning your earlier question, in Heb 11:1
>LSJ favors the interpretation "confidence" for
>hUPOSTASIS. BAGD like "realization" at Heb 11:1:
>"in faith things hoped for become realized" or
>"things hoped for become reality." I prefer LSJ's
>interpretation.
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