[B-Greek] Mark 5:7

virgil newkirk virgilsalvage1 at msn.com
Sun Oct 30 14:53:05 EST 2005


Ben wrote...


> [Ben Crick:]  This expression TI EMOI KAI SOI is a literal rendering of a Hebrew (or
>  Aramaic equivalent) phrase MaH LiY WaLaK "What to me and to thee" or
>  TI EMOI KAI SOI. It is found in Judges 11:12; 2 Samuel 16:10 and 19:22;
>  1 Kings 17:18; 2 Kings 3:13; 2 Chronicles 35:21; and in the GNT, Mark 5:7
>  //Luke 8:28, and John 2:4. Variations occur in Joshua 22:24 and 2 Kings
>  9:18-19.


and then Iver...


When we are dealing with an idiom, as here, it is very helpful to look at the context of every occurrence, so I appreciate Ben
taking the time to supply those occurrences.
As I looked at the context, the meaning in each case could be expressed by "Why are you bothering me?" This applies both the OT
and NT contexts. None of the translations suggested so far in this thread communicate the correct meaning in English, and are
therefore not accurate in terms of communicating the original intent. As idiomatic renderings I would accept either "Leave me
alone!" or "Why are you bothering me?"

It seems to go back to the cultural value in keeping a good relationship. So a more literal rendering would be "What is the
problem between us?" However it is not a real question seeking to understand the problem. It is rather a rhetorical question
implying that the other part is causing a problem, and the speaker would rather be left alone and not be bothered.

" snip "

Iver Larsen
Bible translation consultant




VN:

 The contexts where this phrase TI EMOI KAI SOI (or it's variation) is found, point out especially grave or at the very least, extraordinary situations to the people there and their circumstances, as well as the parties directly affecting or possibly able to affect these persons and situations. In those situations we find the possibility of war vs. peace, keeping ones head or losing one's head, death remaining or life restoring...etc. It seems to me that there is something much more contained in TI EMOI KAI SOI than simply bother or business; and it is contained not only in the context but the grammar also. 

To me..in these contexts there are persons that in some way or to some degree have legitimate claim to be considered, given the circumstances. They expect their request...protest...or even perhaps incredulity, to provoke a response if not a change of circumstance, and they obviously feel they will be considered in some way. There seems to be some assumed degree of equal footing or claim here in these situations that are cited above. Turns out sometimes there is...sometimes there isn't. Perhaps in these situations is where a Greek might employ this idiom.

To me, TI EMOI KAI SOI indicates that person stating by means of the interrogative and the dative case:

What?.... with regards to this situation have I, what is mine, and what is my perogative; how does what is you, yours, and what is your perogative have to do with what is being considered...? Perhaps more succinctly:

What does mine and my perogative have to do with what is yours and your perogative ?




Virgil Newkirk
Salt Lake City, Utah







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