[B-Greek] Eph. 4:11

kgraham0938 at comcast.net kgraham0938 at comcast.net
Tue Apr 18 09:39:29 EDT 2006


@A.F

I think because of the MEN/DE construction one should supply the words "some...others" when they translate this passage.

And he gave some to be apostles, others to be prophets, others to be evangelist....

To answer your second question some people do see 'shepards and teachers' in the same group since they are under one article.  But since it is plural I don't think one could argue for a TSKS construction (Granville Sharp), I personally think that Paul is just saying that the two groups are closely related.
--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "A. F." <alethof at yahoo.com> 

> 
> Dear B-Greek all, 
> 
> I have some questions concerning the translation of eph 4:11, 
> 
> KAI AUTOS EDWOKEN TOUS MEN APOSTOLOUS TOUS DE PROFHTAS TOUS DE EUAGGELISTAS 
> TOUS DE POIMENAS KAI DIDASKALOUS PROS TON KATARTISMON TWN AGIWN EIS ERGON 
> DIAKONIAS… 
> 
> 1. 
> The translations I know all present a construction like the following: 
> 
> And he gave some to be apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists, 
> and some, shepherds and teachers, for the … 
> 
> 
> But is it possible to use: 
> 
> And he gave the apostles, and the prophets, and the evangelists, and the 
> shepherds and teachers, for the … 
> 
> instead? 
> 
> Which one represents truly the idea of the Greek text? Can you propose a 
> literal translation with explanation which explains the reasons? 
> 
> 
> 2. 
> Is it possible to determine if four or five groups are listed in Eph. 4:11 - 
> are the shepherds and teachers put in one and the same group (being consolidated 
> by [tous de … kai … ])? What are the pros and cons? 
> 
> 
> Thank you 
> AF 
> 
> 
> 
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