[B-Greek] Eph. 4:11

Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Tue Apr 18 11:54:44 EDT 2006


Dear A F,

>   I have some questions concerning the translation of eph 4:11,
>   
>   KAI AUTOS EDWOKEN TOUS MEN APOSTOLOUS TOUS DE 
>PROFHTAS TOUS DE EUAGGELISTAS TOUS DE POIMENAS 
>KAI DIDASKALOUS PROS TON KATARTISMON TWN AGIWN 
>EIS ERGON DIAKONIAS

>   
>   1.
>   The translations I know all present a construction like the following:
>   
>   And he gave some to be apostles, and some, 
>prophets, and some, evangelists, and some, 
>shepherds and teachers, for the 

>   
>   
>   But is it possible to use:
>   
>   And he gave the apostles, and the prophets, 
>and the evangelists, and the shepherds and 
>teachers, for the 

>   
>   instead?


HH: I don't think so. MEN with DE separates these 
items in the list from one another. Use of 
repeated DE suggests some contrastive element as 
well. The BAGD lexicon lists the use of the 
definite article here as coordinated with MEN and 
DE to imply an idea like "some" and "others" for 
the definite article.


>   Which one represents truly the idea of the 
>Greek text?  Can you propose a literal 
>translation with explanation which explains the 
>reasons?


HH: I'm not sure that I understand what your 
asking for. The standard translations are good.


>   2.
>   Is it possible to determine if four or five 
>groups are listed in Eph. 4:11 - are the 
>shepherds and teachers put in one and the same 
>group (being consolidated by [tous de 
 kai 
 
>])? What are the pros and cons?


HH: There are four groups, with shepherds and 
teachers being lumped together as one group under 
the definite article.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard




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