[B-Greek] Matt. 28:1 OYE restored to "late" vs "before"

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Apr 20 12:34:30 EDT 2006


On Apr 20, 2006, at 12:25 PM, George Young wrote:

> Dear B-Greek Group:
>
> The passage does not yield easily, does it? Rather odd
> on the eve of such a spectacular event. However,
> perhaps I should clarify my understanding of some of
> the vocabulary.  I understand SABBATWN pl. in Matthew
> as basically a "week" or "weeks," depending upon
> context.  Moreover, I understand OYE as "late" or
> "later on," depending upon context.  In this passage
> in Matt. the Evangelist's does seem concerned here
> with temporal markers.
>
> As for placing OYE DE SABBATWN at the very end of
> 27:66, it doesn't seem entirely inconceivable as a
> stand alone temporal marker - trans. "and [it was] the
> end of the Sabbath [week]" i.e., Saturday, late
> afternoon perhaps.

So you're saying you think it's a sentence by itself, this separate  
temporal phrase?

> We all know that the ch. & verse
> numbers were added later, but they have influenced and
> do influence interpretation, even in a text like the
> USB Greek NT. Having said that, the semantic nuances
> associated with OYE as "late" or "later" easily carry
> over into ideas of "after" or "afterward" and so
> forth, in which case OYE DE SABBATWN is eactly where
> its supposed to be at 28:1.  As an aside, while
> searching for semantic closure I happened to notice
> that the numerical value of OYE is intriguing,
> especially when coupled with TWN SABBATWN.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Webber Young.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2006, at 8:02 PM, George Young wrote:
>>
>>> Dear B-Greek Group:
>>>
>>> I figure I mine as well venture into the
>> discussion,
>>> just for the fun of it.  It is with trepidation
>> and
>>> not a small measure of fear that I posit one
>> possible
>>> senario to this dicussion of OYE. ... Here goes.
>>> Might the phrase OYE DE SABBATWN mean (*with great
>>> emphasis*) "And it was late in the week."
>> Furthermore,
>>> might we place this phrase at the END of chapter
>>> 27:66?  That is to say, might OYE DE SABBATWN be
>> the
>>> final statement after the guards seal the tomb and
>>> stand guarding it?  In which case, the wonderful
>>> narrative about the women at the tomb (and ch.28)
>>> begins with THi EPIFWSKOUSHi EIS MIAN SABBATWN
>> (trans.
>>> "In the wee hours on the first day of the
>> week...)???
>>> Just thinking out load.
>>
>> "on the day dawning into the first day of the week"
>> -- yes.
>> But OYE DE SABBATWN cannot really follow upon Mt
>> 27:66 (hOI DE
>> POREUQENTES HSFALISANTO TON TAFON SFRAGISANTES TON
>> LIQON META THS
>> KOUSTWDIAS [OYE DE SABBATWN] simply for the reason
>> that DE follows
>> upon the first word of a new phrase or clause
>> (notice hOI DE
>> POREUQENTES in verse 66 of chapter 27); you might
>> conceivably have
>> OYE SABBATWN following SFRAGISANTES TON LIQON META
>> THS KOUSTWDIAS,
>> but my guess is that such a temporal phrase would
>> gravitate toward
>> the front of the clause between POREUQENTES and
>> HSFALISANTO.
>> Moreover, wouldn't this securing of the tomb really
>> need to take
>> place immediately following the burial rather than
>> "after the
>> Sabbath" (i.e. very early on Sunday morning)? In
>> terms of Matthew's
>> understanding of the conspiracy to guard against a
>> resurrection
>> claim, there couldn't be that sort of interval
>> between the burial and
>> the securing of the entrance to the tomb. OYE DE
>> SABBATWN is placed
>> where it belongs at the beginning of 28:1.
>>
>>
>>> --- "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2006, at 2:07 PM, Lars wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Attn: Carl Conrad who wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Transliteration problems:
>>>>> This SHOULD read: THi EPIFWSKOUSHi EIS MIAN
>>>> SABBATWN
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>   The complication here is this particular
>> point
>>>> in time of
>>>>>> reference is not yet "one sabbaths", it only
>>>> approaching "one
>>>>>> sabbaths".    Since we know from other
>> scriptures
>>>> this is after the
>>>>>> sabbath the presumption for ONE SABBATHS is
>> that
>>>> it is one day
>>>>>> after the sabbath.   But "lightening up into"
>> is
>>>> a reference to
>>>>>> before that period.  So it is not yet "one
>>>> sabbaths" and thus there
>>>>>> is a contradiction here if "one sabbaths" is
>>>> believed to be the
>>>>>> general idiomatic reference to one day after
>> the
>>>> sabbath.
>>>>>
>>>>>   CC:  EIS MIAN SABBATWN means "into day one of
>>>> the week," as the
>>>>> translation that you presented above rightly
>>>> indicates. Here you're
>>>>> apparently operating on your own understanding
>> (or
>>>> misunderstanding?)
>>>>> of the Greek phraseology. You really ought to
>>>> check a lexicon (BDAG
>>>>> or another) for the varied usage of SABBATON in
>>>> the singular and
>>>>> plural forms.
>>>>>
>>>>>   LW:  Please note that you entirely missed the
>>>> critical point here.
>>>>>   It is not simply "into day one of the week"
>> but
>>>> THi EPIFWSKOUSHi,
>>>>>   the reference to "lightening up into day one
>> of
>>>> the week" that is
>>>>> the
>>>>>   critical point here.   "Lightening up" is used
>>>> to express something
>>>>>   that is approaching.  Thus by comparison we
>> find
>>>> at Luke 23:54 a
>>>>>   similar reference  with a variation of this
>> term
>>>> translated as "Now
>>>>>   it was Preparation, and the evening light of
>> the
>>>> sabbath was
>>>>>   approaching."   The Greek is:
>>>>>
>>>>>   KAI SABBATON EPEFWSKEN
>>>>>   and sabbath was lighting upon
>>>>
>>>> EPIFWSKW means "to dawn" and, by extension in the
>>>> somewhat peculiar
>>>> usage of Lk 23:54 "draw near" (where the
>> reference
>>>> is to a day
>>>> beginning as the darkness descends). In Mt 28:1
>> the
>>>> usage is more
>>>> standard: THi EPIFWSKOUSHi (hHMERAi or perhaps
>>>> hWRAi): "at the hour
>>>> dawning into the first day of the week."
>>>>
>>>>>   Since this was still preparation, the day
>> before
>>>> the sabbath,
>>>>> lighting
>>>>>   upon indicates the approach of the sabbath,
>> thus
>>>> at Matthew 28:1
>>>>>   "lightening up into one sabbath" would likely
>>>> express the approach
>>>>>   of "one sabbaths"; "one sabbaths" had not as
>> yet
>>>> occurred.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "one
>> sabbaths"
>>>> -- that's not  
>>>> Greek and it's also not English. The Greek phrase
>>>> EIS MIAN (hHMERAN)
>>>> SABBATWN means "into (day) one of the week."
>>>> SABBATWN, the genitive
>>>> plural of SABBATA evidently here refers to the
>> week,
>>>> rather than the
>>>> sabbath. The expression MIA SABBATWN carries over
>>>> from Hebrew's
>>>> preferential use of the cardinal numeral "one"
>>>> instead of the ordinal
>>>> numeral "first" for a numerical series.
>>>>
>>>>>   Because we know from other reference that this
>>>> was indeed already
>>>>>   after the sabbath and on the first day after
>> the
>>>> sabbath, "one
>>>>> sabbath"
>>>>>   is not well translated as a reference to the
>>>> entire day, but better
>>>>>   references the approach of a subdivision of
>> the
>>>> day.  The context
>>>>> here
>>>>>   is that "one sabbaths" begins at sunrise.  As
>> I
>>>> noted, since
>>>>> sunrise begins
>>>>>   a major division of the day, one of two, it
>>>> could be a reference
>>>>> to the
>>>>>   "morrow" (EPAURION) that begins at sunsirse
>> and
>>>> since this would
>>>>> be the
>>>>>   second morrow of the day, "one sabbaths" could
>>>> be a reference to one
>>>>>   morrow past the sabbaths.
>>>>>
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/




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