[B-Greek] Comparing John 1:18 & 1John 4:12

Dave Smith (REL110, 211,212) rel21x at charter.net
Sat Aug 12 15:46:32 EDT 2006


Jason,

John 1:18 and 1 John 4:12 are not parallel constructions. There is no
conditional aspect to John 1:18. Although one may try to avoid the concept
of  "the only begotten God" (MONOGENHS QEOS), it is common in Justin Martyr
by c. 135 C. E., with the son being the only-begotten-God and the Father
being the unbegotten-God. Johannine ideology/terminology influenced Justin's
theology and his writings reflect it in several places. What has been
offered in several posts is also the way early 2nd century Christianity
understood this idea.


Dave Smith
Hudson, NC

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason Kerrigan" <jasonandshon at yahoo.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 14:53
Subject: [B-Greek] Comparing John 1:18 & 1John 4:12


> There is a very interesting comparison that can be made when comparing
John 1:18
>   with 1John 4:12.
>
>   John 1:18 says, "theon oudeis heoraken popote monogenes" (God no-man
has-seen
>   at-any-time the-only-begotten)
>
>   1John 4:12 says, "theon oudeis popote tetheatai ean agapomen" (God
no-man at-any-
>   time has-beheld if we-love)
>
>   The NIV translates 1John 4:12 as, "No one has ever seen God; but if we
love" (bold
>   letters mine)
>
>   By the same standard used to translate 1John 4:12 in the NIV couldn't
John 1:18
>   be translated as, "No man has seen God at any time but/except the only
begotten"?
>
>   We see this implication in some Ante Nicene quotations:
>
>   "As it is written in the Gospel: 'No man has seen God at any time,
except the only-
>   begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father; He has declared him."
(- Irenaeus,
>   Ante Nicene Fathers, Vol. 1, pg.489)
>
>   And, "It is also supported by the scripture: 'No man has seen God at any
time,
>   except the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father.'" (-
Disputation
>   of Archelaus and Manes, Ante Nicene Fathers Vol.6, pg.205)
>
>   (These two tranlsations are taken from "A Dictionary of Early Christ
Beliefs," published by Hendrickson, pg. 642)
>
>   This would produce an agreeing structure in the second clause of John
1:18 as found in the first clause of John 1:18. Harold pointed out that the
object noun theon is
>   stated before the verb in the first clause ("God no man has seen")
likewise, if
>   monogenes is an ending to the first clause (no man has seen God at any
time except
>   the only begotten") then the second clause would also begin by stating
the object first
>   ("God, the one being in the bosom of the Father, that one declared").
>
>   "No man hath seen God at any time except the only begotten. God, the one
being in
>   the bosom of the Father that one declared."
>
>   or
>
>   "No man hath seen God at any time except the only begotten. The one
being in the bosom of the Father hath declared God."
>
>   Thanks for any help you can provide on this issue,
>   Jaosn Kerrigan
>
>
>
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