[B-Greek] John 6:62 former bread? former position?

Curtis Hinson curtis at curtishinson.com
Sun Aug 13 15:50:37 EDT 2006


George's Greek lately is Greek ISO-8859-7 for those of you who are 
wondering, but his email client didn't change the message formatting so 
you have to set the encoding manually to view it, unless you run Greek 
Windows. I think Greek Windows 95/98 used that ISO encoding. Greek 
Windows XP uses Unicode Greek though I think, as XP is Unicode native.

Bless the Name
Curtis Hinson

George F Somsel wrote the following on 8/13/2006 1:11 PM:
>        
>
>
>   a*a'i' i"o~i' e`a*u`n~c,o^a* o^i"i' o~e'i"i' o^i"o~ a'i'e`n~u`?i"o~ a'i'a'a^a'e'i'i"i'o^a' i"?i"o~ c,i' o^i" ?n~i"o^a*n~i"i'?
> EAN OUN QEWRHTE TON hUION TOU ANQRWPOU ANABAINONTA hOPOU HN TO PROTERON?
>    
>   The former?  what is the former?  O^i" ?n~i"o^a*n~i"i' [TO PROTERON] is a substantivized adverb or a substantivized adjective [a common adjective with an understood noun] which means that with the addition of the article it has a case.  ?n~i"o^a*n~i"o`, - a', - i"i' [PROTEROS, - A, - ON] is the dictionary form.  A translation of "the former was" requires that it be a nominative.  But what is "the former"?  Since it cannot be fem. and cannot be masc. and be an acc., it must then be neuter which hs the same form in nom and acc.  To what does it refer?  I would suggest that the proper [understood] noun for o^i" ?n~i"o^a*n~i"i' [TO PROTERON] is e^a'e'n~i"o` [KAIROS].  This, however, is masc. and to be nominative would need to be o^i" ?n~i"o^a*n~i"o` [TO PROTEROS].  Thus, "where the former was" simply doesn't work.
>    
>   __________
>    
>   
> Jason Kerrigan <jasonandshon at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   In light of these things is it possible to translate of John 6:62 
> as:
> "What...if ye shall see the Son of man ascend 
> up to where the former was?" (John 6:62)
> Christ just finished referring to that first bread which came 
> down from heaven during the Israelites journey through the 
> wilderness (John 6:31-32, 58). Hence I believe that in John 
> 6:62 he was signifying his future ascension to heaven where 
> that first and former bread had come from (John 6:31). 
>
> Jesus shows that he was contrasting the two breads, saying:
> "This is the bread that came down from heaven: 
> not as your fathers did eat manna, and are 
> dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for 
> ever." (John 6:58) 
> Now by saying, "this bread," it is manifest that Christ was 
> comparing and contrasting the bread from heaven in Moses’ 
> day with himself. After contrasting the two breads in John 6:58 
> the very next words that Jesus says are:
> "Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see 
> the Son of man ascend up to where the former 
> was?" (John 6:63) 
> Thus he further contrasted the two breads and spoke of his 
> visible ascension to heaven, where the former bread had come 
> from.
>
> Is this way off? 
>
> Thanks,
> Jason Kerrigan
>
>
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>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
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