[B-Greek] Heb 11:40 together or not apart?
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Aug 16 05:35:02 EDT 2006
On Aug 16, 2006, at 12:20 AM, Craig J wrote:
>> HH: The whole Book of Hebrews emphasizes that we have
>> something better than those under the old coveannt had,
>> and by extension everybody before that. It also
>> explains exactly how the new is better. Hebrews 11 is
>> clear that OT saints received promises that were not
>> fulfilled (Heb 11:9, 11, 13). Hebrews 11:39 returns to
>> that thought, and the phrase "be made perfect" in 11:40
>> carries some implication of the promises being
>> fulfilled. The fulfillment of the promises depended on
>> something better that would follow the lifetimes of the
>> OT saints, and that better thing came in the person of
>> Jesus, so that only in him are the promises
>> fulfilled and is perfection brought. There is no doubt
>> that the OT saints are now perfected, at least in their
>> spirits, for Heb 12:23 adds this fact.
>
> Hi Harold.
>
> I don't think I have any argument with the general interpretative
> points you
> make above. However, my question is not about the intrepretation of
> 11:40
> within the whole context. My question is just on whether NIV and
> NET are
> being overly interpretative in converting the double negative into
> a simple
> positive. I'm thinking they are, and that is the obvious conclusion
> to me,
> but maybe I draw that conclusion because I am not familiar enough
> with usage
> of Greek negatives. Maybe the use of MH CWRIS hHMWN is really the
> same as
> 'together with us' without any loss of nuance or emphasis..?
>
> BTW Comparing translations, NIV and NET change to a positive
> (although NIV
> also includes an 'only' which is a bit better IMO). ASV, ESV, NKJV,
> KJV,
> Vulgate all keep the negative, which I think is better.
Craig, this is really not a forum for discussing English translations
or translation
theory, but your focus appears to be more on how the Greek text --
the meaning
of which is not at all in question -- is most adequately rendered in
English. You
should take questions like this to the B-Translation list rather than
here:
https://lists.kastanet.org/Lists/Bible-Translation/List.html
Carl W. Conrad
Co-Chair, B-Greek List
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu or cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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