[B-Greek] Direct Discourse: Nominative/Object?

Jason Kerrigan jasonandshon at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 22 21:36:56 EDT 2006


I have to ask this... I don't know where
  else to turn.
   
  I have examoned the passage (more) thoroughly
  and I have to re-ask the question. Please forgive me
  for the bother.
   
  John 1:18 says, "No man hath seen God at any time; 
  MONOGENES QEOS O WN EIS TON KOLPON TOU 
  PATROS EKEINOS EXHGHSATO." 
   
  I know there is a big dispute over whether the original 
  reading was QEOS or hUIOS, but if the reading were 
  QEOS, and both MONOGENES and QEOS functioned as 
  substantives then is there any way (grammatically 
  speaking) that QEOS could function as the object of 
  EXHGHSATO? (There is no stated object otherwise).
   
  I read an article that presented a pretty strong case 
  in favor of MONOGENES and QEOS functioning as 
  substantives @ http://www.forananswer.org/John/Jn1_18.htm 
   
  MONOGENES is also used in John 1:14 as a substantive.
   
  The matching case and gender of the preceeding 
  adjective/noun does not necessarily demand that it 
  modify the noun that follows it. 
  
   
  In 2Peter 2:5 "OGDOON" (eighth) could grammatically function as 
  an adjective in this passage (OGDOON NOE), and thus modify "NOE" 
  (Noah), however it functions as a substanttive instead. If "OGDOON" 
  (eighth) functioned as an adjective then this would mean that 
  the "eighth Noah" was in view. But it rather refers to the 
  eighth of those eight soulds saved in the ark.
   
  And in my inquiries I have found (at least I think I 
  have been informed thus) that unless John 1:18 is 
  direct discourse then QEOS (as a nominative) could 
  not function as the object.
   
  Origin believed that John 1:15-18 DOES contain direct 
  discourse, being the speech of John the Baptist. He said:
   
  "'No one hath seen God at any time; MONOGENES 
  QEOS W WN EIS TON KOLPON TOU PATROS EKEINOS 
  EXHGHSATO.' This whole speech is from the mouth of 
  the Baptist bearing witness to the Christ." (- Origen, 
  Commentary on John, Book II, XXIX)
   
  So I was wondering whether, in Origen's view, 
  QEOS could function as the object, thus reading 
  as:
   
  "No man hath seen God at any time; the only 
  begotten, who is in the bosom of the Father, hath 
  declared God."
   
  I am trying to probe into all of the ways that 
  John 1:18 can be translated (even hypothetically). 
   
  From a strictly grammatical/hypothetical standpoint 
  IS THIS POSSIBLE? 
   
  P.S. I don't have a problem with saying that Christ 
  is QEOS or MONOGENES QEOS
   
  I a,m not trying to "flog a dead horse" but I have 
  simply not felt that the question has been 
  answered from a strictly grammatical position of
  (even a hypothetical) direct discourse.
   
  Sorry to be a bother.
   
  Thanks,
  Jason Kerrigan

 		
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