[B-Greek] Direct Discourse: Nominative/Object?

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 23 06:42:26 EDT 2006


There is no way for this to be considered either as direct discourse or as indirect discourse.
   
  No, it is not possible to translate this as "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten, who is in the bosom of the Father, hath declared God" either in direct discourse or in indirect.  The exception to this is if you wish to make the QEON which begins the sentence do double duty (as Carl suggested and with which I would agree).  This means, however, that in your version you have omitted the QEOS which follows MONOGENHS.  It is the "only-begotten God" or "unique God" who is reference by EKEINOS and who reveals God because he has been in close association with him.  Being a nominative QEOS cannot be the object which would necessitate the accusative.  While virtually any word can be substantivized in Greek, it is sometimes necessary to recognize that it functions in a particular situation as an adjective.  It is thus with MONOGENHS in this passage.  It describes QEOS. 
   
  Now, hand over your whip.
   
  _________

Jason Kerrigan <jasonandshon at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
And in my inquiries I have found (at least I think I 
have been informed thus) that unless John 1:18 is 
direct discourse then QEOS (as a nominative) could 
not function as the object.

Origin believed that John 1:15-18 DOES contain direct 
discourse, being the speech of John the Baptist. He said:

"'No one hath seen God at any time; MONOGENES 
QEOS W WN EIS TON KOLPON TOU PATROS EKEINOS 
EXHGHSATO.' This whole speech is from the mouth of 
the Baptist bearing witness to the Christ." (- Origen, 
Commentary on John, Book II, XXIX)

So I was wondering whether, in Origen's view, 
QEOS could function as the object, thus reading 
as:

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only 
begotten, who is in the bosom of the Father, hath 
declared God."

I am trying to probe into all of the ways that 
John 1:18 can be translated (even hypothetically). 

>From a strictly grammatical/hypothetical standpoint 
IS THIS POSSIBLE? 

P.S. I don't have a problem with saying that Christ 
is QEOS or MONOGENES QEOS

I a,m not trying to "flog a dead horse" but I have 
simply not felt that the question has been 
answered from a strictly grammatical position of
(even a hypothetical) direct discourse.

Sorry to be a bother.

Thanks,
Jason Kerrigan


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george
gfsomsel
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