[B-Greek] Titus 2:13 / Revelation 12:14
Harold Holmyard
hholmyard at ont.com
Fri Aug 25 10:44:58 EDT 2006
Dear William,
I am resubmitting this in case my answer was
hidden by the formatting:
>In effect, doesn't the appearance of the definite article "clash" with hHMWN?>>
HH: You cannot always do one-for-one literal
translating and then
judge by the English, for Greek grammar works
differently than English grammar.
>On 8/15/06, Jason Hare <jaihare at gmail.com> wrote:>> Carl,>> This is a bit off-topic of the present discussion (attributive v.> predicate> position and article-noun linkage), but I was just wondering -- since you> mentioned that THS DOXHS της δοξης is functioning adjectivally in Titus> 2:13> -- if this is a semiticism.>> In other words, do you think that Paul was using something similar to the> Hebrew construct phrase? Or it a natural feature of the Greek language to> link two nouns together (using the genitive in the second) to express a> adjectival relationship?>> Best regards,> Jason>>> On 8/15/06, Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:> >> >> > On Aug 14, 2006, at 9:50 PM, Jason Kerrigan wrote:> >> > > Revelation 12:14: TOU AETOU TOU MEGALOU, reads, "great eagle."> > > Likewise I have bellieved that: THS DOXHS TOU MEGALOU in Titus 2:13> > > would read, "Great Glory." Can anyone shed some light on why> > > MEGALOU would be descriptive of the antecedent noun in R
evelation> > > 12:14 but not in Titus 2:13? I am open to correction.> >> > Jason, this is Greek 101, lesson 3 or 4: positions of the article in> > relation to adjective and noun when all are in agreement as to> > number, gender, and case:> >> > Standard Attributive position: TO MEGA BIBLION: "the big book" --> > (article, adjective, and noun are all neuter singular; the adjective> > is "sandwiched" between the article and the noun)> > Alternative Attributive position TO BIBLION TO MEGA: "the big book"> > or "the book, the big (one)" -- the article-noun group is followed by> > a repeated article and adjective agreeing with the noun; the function> > of the repeated article here is to reference the immediately> > preceding noun and relate the adjective to that preceding noun; this> > is very similar to apposition of "the book" and "the big one" and it> > is also very similar to a relative clause with ellipsis of the verb:> > "the book which (is) big."> >> > Note that in both the
se constructions the adjective is "embraced" by> > the article which, like the adjective, has the same number, gender,> > and case as the noun.> >> > Different from the above are versions of the Predicate position:> >> > MEGA TO BIBLION, TO BIBLION MEGA -- in both these formulations the> > verb "be" is in ellipsis (that's standard Greek practice). Both> > formulations mean "The book is big."> >> > The formulation in Rev 12:14 is what I have above called the> > "Alternative attributive position": TOU AETOU TOU MEGALOU is the> > genitive-case form of "the eagle, the big (one)" or identical in> > meaning to "the big eagle."> >> > But in Titus 2:13 you're isolating elements that belong together> > grammatically () and linking elements that don't belong together> > grammatically> >> > PROSDECOMENOI THN MAKARIAN ELPIDA KAI EPIFANEIAN THS DOXHS TOU> > MEGALOU QEOU KAI SWTHROS hHMWN IHSOU CRISTOU ...> > lit. "awaiting the happy expectation and appearing of the glory of> > our great
God and savior Jesus Christ ... "> >> > THS DOXHS is genitive singular feminine dependent upon the preceding> > noun EPIFANEIAN (here functioning as if it were an adjective: "of> > glory" = "glorious), but TOU MEGALOU QEOU KAI SWTHROS hHMWN is> > genitive singular masculine dependent upon the preceding noun> > EPIFANEIAN: "appearing of our great God and saviior."> >> > In sum, you could not at all view the relationship between TOU AETOU> > TOU MEGALOU and THS DOXHS TOU MEGALOU as comparable if you really> > understood something that is very basic to ancient Greek syntax. You> > have focused upon the superficial fact that the phrases you've cited> > from Rev 12:14 and Titus 2:13 each consist of a genitive article and> > genitive noun followed by another genitive article followed by> > another genitive form in agreement with the article -- but you have> > failed to see the syntactic relationship of the elements in the> > larger group and have actually isolated THS DOXHS TOU ME
GALOU from> > the larger syntactic group in which it belongs.> >> > Carl W. Conrad> > Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)> > 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243> > cwconrad2 at mac.com> > WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/> >> >> > ---> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek> > B-Greek mailing list> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek> >>>>> --> Jason A. Hare> jaihare at gmail.com> Joplin, Missouri (USA)> ---> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek> B-Greek mailing list> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek>>>> >Yours,
Harold Holmyard
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