[B-Greek] KOSMOS
frjsilver at optonline.net
frjsilver at optonline.net
Wed Aug 30 13:10:29 EDT 2006
Dear Friends --
Carl Conrad just about took the words right out of my...ummm...keyboard!
I'm reminded of the controversies surrounding the Christology of Areios in the 3rd-4th centuries. 'The world (OIKOUMENH) woke up one day to find itself Areian.'
Foremost among the opponents of Areios was Bishop Alexander of Alexandria, and his deacon Athanasios, and it was the latter who articulated most of the successful arguments. So singular was he in his efforts that he was described as ATHANASIOS KATA TOU KOSMOU, 'Athanasios against the world', _contre tout le monde_, -- against everybody.
In any event I don't think we can make a very strong case for KOSMOS having a particularly negative resonance.
It might be helpful to note that AIWN means not only 'age', but 'world, universe' -- almost interchangeably in the NT and other Greek Christian literature. This is a calque, of course, of Hebrew `OLAM, and it often *does* have negative overtones, as in PNEUMA TOU AIWNOS TOUTOU.
Hope this helps a little.
Peace and blessings to all.
Father James Silver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W. Conrad"
Date: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:54 pm
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KOSMOS
To: Harold Holmyard
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> On Wednesday, August 30, 2006, at 12:48PM, Harold Holmyard
> wrote:
>
> >Dear William,
> >
> >>The discussion of the usage of KOSMOS reminded me of something
> I have been
> >>puzzled by for a long time...
> >>
> >>Both Paul and John use KOSMOS with what I would call a "religious"
> >>definition. They both use the word to refer to "the community
> of the lost"
> >>(or some approximation thereof). I am puzzled by this as they
> both seem to
> >>use it as if this usage would already be familiar to them, but
> it is not
> >>really present in the Liddell/Scott usages listed.
> >>
> >
> >
> >HH: But if the world in general consists of sinners, then
> that's the
> >kind of world you're dealing with. One could compare the word
> "crowd,"
> >whose specific connotation depends on the nature of the people
> in the crowd.
>
> Yes, and you might compare such expressions in modern languages
> as "le monde," "tout le monde," "die ganze Welt." All these
> expressions mean "people in general" or "people."
>
> >>Does anyone have an opinion on how the John/Paul usage came about?
> >>
> >>* Was this usage present in the LXX?
> >>* Was this usage present in secular Greece - and overlooked by
> >>Liddell/Scott?
> >>* Did Paul or John coin the usage, expecting his readers to
> catch on?
> >>
> >>I find the idea that the scriptures are written with non-
> extant word
> >>meanings disturbing.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >HH: KOSMOS can refer to the "world order," according to LSJ.
> The
> >negative connotation comes from the Bible's definition of the
> world
> >order as ruled by Satan:
> >
> >Eph. 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways
> of this
> >world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit
> who is now
> >at work in those who are disobedient.
> >
> >>I would also like to point out that one should never
> understand KOSMOS as
> >>meaning "the planet Earth" in bible usage as that would be
> anachronistic.>>
> >>
> >
> >HH: Liddell & Scott did not think so. They gave it as a
> significant
> >meaning for KOSMOS, citing John 13:1, and contrasting earth
> with heaven.
> >They give non-biblical examples as well. It is used for earth
> in
> >contrast with the underworld as well. They give plenty of
> examples of
> >the word in a sort of astronomical sense.
> >
> >Yours,
> >Harold Holmyard
> >
> >---
> >B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> >B-Greek mailing list
> >B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> >
> >
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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