[B-Greek] Matt 1:20 to gennethen: Beget or conceive?

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Fri Dec 15 18:00:13 EST 2006


Dear Webb, George, et al,

It seems that the parallel passage (not exactly) in Luke 3:23ff, uses the
classic genitive to express the relationship of the son to the father.

Luke 1:31, KAI IDOU SULLHMPSHi EN GASTRI KAI TEXSi hOION. Thus, Luke uses
SULLAMBANW for conceive, not GENNAW.

Luke 1:35, ...PNEUMA HAGION EPELEUSETAI EPI SE, KAI DUNAMIS HUPSISTOU
EPISKIASEI SOI. DIO KAI TO GENNWMENON HAGION KLHQHSETAI, HUIOS QEOU. Thus,
GENNAW is used to refer to the holy child = Son of God.

It is worthy to note in both passages in Matthew and Luke that it is the
agency in the person of the Holy Spirit that is emphasized; even with GENNAW
being used to refer to the birth=conception.

En Xristwi,

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: "Webb" <webb at selftest.net>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Matt 1:20 to gennethen: Beget or conceive?


> One word which BDAG has is KUOFOREW.  That is found in Ignatius' Epistle
to the Ephesians 18.2
>
> hO GAR QEOS hHMWN IHSOUS hO XRISTOS EKUOFORHQH hUPO MARIAS KAT' OIKONOMIAN
QEOU EK SPERMATOS MEN DAUEID, PNEUMATOS DE hAGIOU hOS EGENNHQH KAI
EBAPTISQH, hINA TWi PAQEI TO hUDWR KAQARISHi.
>
> Another is SULLHMMA which appears in the Gospel of James (Protevangeium
Jacobi)
>
> SULLHMMA EXEI EK PNEUMATOS hAGIOU
>
> Then there is a metaphorical usage of KUW in Is 59.4 (LXX)
>
> hOTI KUOUSIN PONON KAI TIKTOUSIN ANOMIAN
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Webb <webb at selftest.net>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 4:31:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Matt 1:20 to gennethen: Beget or conceive?
>
>
> Dear Anthony,
>
> I'd be interested to know what Greek words you have in mind that refer to
> conception as distinct from begetting. I thought the ancient concept of
how
> babies are made didn't include the exact analogue for the modern idea of
> "conception", i.e. the creation of a zygote by the fertilization of an egg
> by a sperm. So most contemporary English speakers would see conception not
> as something that the woman does, but something that a couple does (put
> "conceived a child" into Google, and 9 out of 10 results will refer to a
> couple). I think the idea in Judaism when Matthew was written was that the
> man planted a seed in the woman, and she nurtured it. So GENNAW probably
> connoted something like "to spawn" or "to plant a seed" when it was used
of
> a man. The angel was saying to Joseph, the seed that has been planted in
> your betrothed is from the Holy Spirit (not from another man).
>
> But notice what happens when we go back, from this perspective, and
express
> it as "what has been conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit" (not from
> another man). It's very close, the difference being that it assumes the
> modern conception of conception, so to speak. 99% of modern people would
not
> be able to tell you the difference between "begetting" (an obsolete word)
> and "conceiving" a child. So you don't achieve anything positive for the
> vast majority of readers by preserving the verbal distinction. And I think
> you risk getting into a conceptual and theological thicket by trying to
> insist that there is significance to the fact that the text refers to
> begetting and not conceiving. Email me off list if you want to hear my
> theological remarks. But I don't think Matthew had the choice to use the
> word for "conceive", because there was no Greek word equivalent to our
> modern English word "conceive" at the time the text was written. Or was
> there?
>
> Webb Mealy
>
>
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