[B-Greek] Acts 5.18 and 4:3

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun Dec 31 09:00:30 EST 2006


Time for the text again since it has been excised.

KAI EPEBALON TAS XEIRAS EPI TOUS APOSTOLOUS KAI EQENTO AUTOUS EN THRHSEI DHMOSIAi

Really, Iver, you must make up your mind.  First you say "There is no prominence to the final adjective" with regard to DHMOSIAi in 5.18, now you wish to assert that there really is prominence when you wish to attempt to distinguish the place where the apostles were being held here from that in 4.3.  You can't have it both ways.  Either it has prominence or it doesn't.  I'm inclined to think that it does have some prominence since the UNIVERSAL usage of the f dat sg of this word is adverbial and it is being used here to distinguish it from the manner in which the apostles are treated later in this chapter.  While it may be true that the majority of commentators and translators have taken DHMOSIAi here to be adjectival, this runs counter to its usage elsewhere.  I have yet to see an instance where the f dat sg of DHMOSIOS is an adjective.  Of course, it does more damage to your position regarding left-order prominence if it is understood as an adj, so, if you wish to shoot
 yourself in the foot, that's not my concern.
 
george
gfsomsel
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
To: BG <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:37:09 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Acts 5.18 and 4:3


Thank you, Father James,

If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that the holding place in Acts 4:3 is a different 
place than the jail in 5:18. This sounds very plausible to me and might explain the addition of the 
descriptive adjective which makes THRHSIS DHMOSIA (v. 18) equivalent to FULAKH in v. 19 and 
DESMWTHRION in v. 21. By using 3 different words pointing to the same facility, Luke seems to 
clarify that this was in fact a regular jail rather than a temporary detention cell.

In 4:3 we have EQENTO EIS THRHSIN EIS THN AURION

I like the way that RSV renders this "put them in custody" until the next day. In this case it was 
only Peter and John, so a small place would be enough.

Acts 5:18 is much later, and when Luke says EQENTO AUTOUS EN THi THRHSEI DHMOSIAi, this would 
probably refer to a bigger jail outside the Temple precincts. After all, we now have 12 apostles, 
and this may well have been too much for the Temple holding facility. This "public jail" would 
probably have had stronger gates and locks and more guards, and Luke may be setting up such 
expectations since the prison guards feature prominently in v. 23.

Since the apostles got a reputation as jail breakers, Herod put Peter in the maximum security prison 
(FULAKH) in chains and with extra guards in chapter 12.

I know we cannot get this from the words alone, but I am curious to know if there is historical or 
archaeological evidence for different kinds, sizes and locations of detention cells and jails. Such 
knowledge helps in understanding the chosen wording and the intended references.

Best wishes and happy New Year,
Iver Larsen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <frjsilver at optonline.net>

Dear Friends --

It seems to me that 'public' or 'common' work well enough for two reasons.

First, these are on the Occam's razor side of possible renderings without getting editorial.

Second, it's clear from the text that the Apostles were arrested by Temple guards at the behest of 
the Kohen ha Gadol and the Tsadiqqim for *religious* offenses.

Since the Temple, as well attested elsewhere in the NT, clearly had a police force, and religious 
authorities could arrest people for religious offenses, it stands to reason that there must have 
been some sort of holding facility for prisoners until they could be tried before the Synedrion.

So the phrase EN THRHSEI DHMOSIAi may be merely St Luke's shorthand way of pointing out that the 
Apostles were NOT held in a Temple jail, but in the 'common prison' AS IF they'd been arrested by 
Roman (or at least municipal) police for a civil offense -- which wasn't the case.  Hence St Luke's 
clarification.


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