[B-Greek] Jn 10:38 hINA GNWTE KAI GINWSKHTE

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at ioa.com
Mon Feb 13 17:37:04 EST 2006


On Feb 13, 2006, at 5:06 PM, RRedden604 at aol.com wrote:

> Perhaps I was looking  for more than there is in the text.   It  
> seems to me
> that the two forms occur because neither alone would emphasize   
> what Jesus
> meant. There is no such thing as a perfect subjunctive in  Greek.   
> Only the
> present and aorist tenses are used in the subjunctive  mood.  I  
> suppose the future
> tense could have worked here, but it is rare  following hINA in the  
> NT.

I'm not quite sure why you say this; there are 10 instances of the  
subjunctive of OIDA:

Mt 9:6; Mk 2:10; Lk 5:24; 1 Cor 2:12, 13:2, 14:11; Eph 6:21; 1 Tim  
3:15; 1 Jn 2:29, 5:13.

Now, it may be argued that OIDA is not really perfect tense but  
semantically present, but it IS technically speaking, a perfect tense.

> It is clear that the aorist subjunctive is the  dominant mood and  
> tense
> following hINA by a three to one margin (Check out  Turner, Syntax,  
> p. 101).  A
> lopsidedness is found in John as  well.  Whenever the present tense  
> is used there
> seems to be an emphasis  upon Aktionsart.  "The distinction between  
> the
> present and the aorist  concerns merely the manner in which the  
> action is regarded.
>  The aorist  subjunctive refers to the action without saying  
> anything about
> its continuance  or repetition, while the present subjunctive  
> refers to it as
> continuing or as  being repeated" (Machen, 131).
>
> We also need to recall that "there  is absolutely no distinction of  
> time"
> between the aorist subjunctive and present  subjunctive; the  
> distinction between
> the two "concerns merely the manner in  which the action is regarded."
> Distinction in time is found only in  the indicative mood.  "There  
> is but one mood
> which has essential temporal  relations; viz., the indicative" (DM  
> 167).
>
> I am inclined to view the two  subjunctives serving to indicate the  
> beginning
> and the continuation of the same  thing.  "... so that you may come  
> to know
> and realize (a linear verb) that  the Father is in Me and I in the  
> Father."
> "Understand" for the present  subjunctive works just about as well  
> for me, but
> not exactly.  It seems to  carry with it a possible "punctiliar"  
> sense whereas
> "realize" doesn't.
>
> The TEV and NJB, as noted by the UBS Translators Handbook, combine   
> the two
> verbs into one and add adverbial expressions:  "that you may  know  
> once and for
> all," and "then you will know for certain."  NLT  simplifies it:   
> "then you
> will realize..."  These seem to capture the  intent of the two verbs.
>
> Any further observations would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Rob Redden
> Church of Christ
> Grover Beach, CA
> ---
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/




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