[B-Greek] Ancient Greek-Grammar war?

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Feb 28 08:15:12 EST 2006


On Feb 27, 2006, at 10:55 PM, Donald Vance wrote:

> See comments interspaced below.
>
> Donald R. Vance, Ph.D.
> Professor of Biblical Languages and Literature
> Oral Roberts University
> dvance at oru.edu
> donaldrvance at mac.com
> On Feb 27, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Carl W.Conrad wrote:
>
>> Grammar in Teaching and Learning Ancient Greek
>>
>>
> snip
>> In the course of my own teaching of Greek I tried several different
>> textbooks.  I came to feel more and more that traditional instruction
>> focused on learning rules and vocabulary lists and paradigms and then
>> TRANSLATING sentences from Greek to English and English to Greek
>> (sentences all too often composed by textbook-authors in quite
>> unidiomatic Greek and English)  would work only with the exceptional
>> students who actually went beyond those procedures and internalized
>> the language in a manner not altogether different from the way
>> children learn their native tongue. I knew that I myself had acquired
>> as much fluency as I had in Greek and Latin through reading long
>> sequential texts of good (and some less good) ancient authors. I felt
>> that what was needed was a textbook that moved as soon as possible
>> into sequential discourse in the Greek or Latin. Of the traditional
>> type of textbooks the best I ever found for classical Attic was
>> Hansen and Quinn (the sentences were written with authentic
>> understanding of both Greek and English idiom). But I was really
>> looking for something that focused on getting the student to THINK IN
>> GREEK.
>>
>
> In defense of the traditional grammatical approach to language
> acquisition, it must be remembered--as our incoming freshmen make
> abundantly clear--it takes 18 years or longer to learn a language "the
> way children learn it." The grammatical approach enables one to shrink
> that to 18 months or less. The inductive approach fails miserably in
> teaching an ancient language for modern students for precisely the
> reason that Mulroy pegged: students don't have the boxes built for
> language learning. If a student can't figure out how "You done good!"
> is wrong, how are they supposed to intuit the meaning of a Greek
> sentence? The inductive approach is too slow. On the flip side, the
> problem with the traditional grammatical approach is that it does not
> lead automatically to internalization.

Of course the fact is that "You done good!" is NOT wrong; it's not  
standard or literary grammar taught in the schools and in upper- 
middle-class families but it is what is actually spoken by no few  
people who understand what they're saying and are understood by those  
to whom they speak.

I rather doubt that the grammatical approach really enables one to  
shrink the learning of an alien language -- especially one that is  
learned fundamentally and almost exclusively as a dead WRITTEN  
language -- to 18 months or less. I've met with a very few students  
who learned Greek and learned it well enough to read it with ease  
with a couple years of devoted application.

I don't really believe that there's one single pedagogical  
methodology for bringing any and every student to competence in  
reading ancient Greek; it is unquestionably true that different  
individuals respond to different methodologies differently: KALWS  
MANQANOUSIN ALLOI ALLWS.

I agree also that a grammatical metalanguage is indispensable in  
teaching Greek and probably in teaching any language where conformity  
to "correct better" usage is required in a social context. I think we  
agree that learning the grammatical rules and paradigms doesn't bring  
about ability to read (much less speak) the language being taught;  
what is essential is PRACTICE in reading (and preferably in speaking  
and writing) the language one is trying to acquire. Moreover the  
practice ought to be in the standard idiom of the language being  
learned.

As I noted, I like the grammatical approach of the JACT Reading Greek  
course but I felt it imperative to supplement it with handout notes  
of my own. I do think that one needs to be able to talk about how the  
language one is learning works and I think also that one needs to be  
able to talk about how the language one is learning differs in  
features and usage from one's native language, and that means one  
must have the metalanguage of grammar.

There are, however, some caveats about the grammar employed in  
teaching ancient Greek. As I've written many times, we owe an immense  
debt of gratitude to those who have handed down orally and in writing  
their grammatical understanding of how ancient Greek works. I  
honestly believe that we who teach and learn ancient Greek today  
stand upon the shoulders of pedagogical giants. On the other hand, as  
Karl Jaspers once said of the essential myths (in the good sense)  of  
religion that are indispensable, so the grammatical rules taught by  
our elders and by the current grammatical authorities may be improved  
upon, clarified, or corrected, or even reformulated in a more "user- 
friendly" or helpful form. That's what the past half-century's work  
on verbal aspect is all about; I'm hopeful that my own observations  
on ancient Greek verbal voice may contribute to some improvement in  
pedagogy. I don't think we can dispense with grammar because we need  
to talk about HOW Greek worked and works.

One problem I noted previously about the metalinguistic grammars is  
that, to the extent that they are written in the alien language of  
the student, they are oriented excessively toward conversion of Greek  
idiomatic structures and usage into alien idiomatic structures and  
usage: one learns from grammars how to translate at least as much and  
often far more than how to understand the original Greek construction  
and usage. They foster the understanding of reading Greek as DECODING  
an alien cryptogram. I am convinced that successful language  
instruction, however conducted, ought to lead to THINKING, so far as  
possible, in the alien language. And I do suspect that goal would be  
fostered by using the language being learned -- ancient Greek -- as  
the language for grammatical accounting -- or at least, underscore  
the distinction between UNDERSTANDING Greek and TRANSLATING it into  
one's native language.

> In my own personal study, I have striven to internalize the language.
> When I read my Greek New Testament, I try NOT to translate the  
> sentence
> into English, but to think the Greek words. As my eyes scant the Greek
> text, in my head I hear PANTA ISXUW EN TWi ENDUNAMOUNTI ME, not "I am
> strong enough for all things in him who empowers me." This often means
> that I have to read a paragraph several times doing mental translation
> first, but eventually I can think the Greek text. This has had a
> significant impact on my understanding and comprehension of Greek. But
> I am still in the infant stages of this process.
>
> snip
>
>> Ultimately the goal of assimilating ancient Greek
>> requires learning to think, to speak, and to write in the fashion of
>> ancient Greek thinkers, speakers, and writers.
>
> This may be our goal, but it may not be the goal of our students,
> especially those who study Biblical Greek. They want to understand the
> text for exegesis.

UNDERSTAND the text for exegesis? How are they to UNDERSTAND the text  
for exegesis if they can't follow the thought-flow of the ancient  
Greek? Somehow THINKING in Greek must come into play. I'm under no  
illusion that students want to write Greek poetry or exchange e-mail  
with make-believe Koine Greek friends, but I think that they need to  
come to terms with a language that really was and really can be used  
by living human beings as an instrument of thought and communication.  
Otherwise I doubt they'll ever get beyond reliance upon interlinear  
translations or the equivalent, and I really think that's somewhat  
like swimming without even getting more than one's feet in the water.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/




More information about the B-Greek mailing list