[B-Greek] John 1:1c
Rolf Furuli
furuli at online.no
Wed Jul 5 12:05:03 EDT 2006
Dear Barry,
See my comments below.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry" <nebarry at verizon.net>
To: "'Rolf Furuli'" <furuli at online.no>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 1:12 PM
Subject: RE: [B-Greek] John 1:1c
snip
RF:
> The English rendering "And the Word was God" is linguistically impossible
> because:
>
> 1) In English, "God" (with capital "G") is equivalent to a proper noun,
and
> this makes "the Word" and "God" in the clause convertible terms, that is,
> "the Word" and "God" are identical in all respects.
BH:
This is, I believe, an assumption that you are reading into the English
translation, and not a necessary interpretation of the English. To
capitalize a bit on an example offered in another post:
Both John and Jane are man."
Now, this is an older usage of the term which to many modern speakers sounds
"sexist," but the meaning is clear, that both John and Jane are human
beings. They are not, however, identical in all respects, but both share
the quality of "manness" or humanity.
RF:
I am not a native English speaker, so I do not have the same linguistic
intuition as you.
However, I think that the crucial issue in the English trandtional rendering
of John 1:1c is more related to linguistics than to intuition.
This is the crucial issue: Is the word "God" with capital "G" in English a
singular noun which is equivalent to a proper name? If that is the case, the
words "the Word" and "God" in the rendering "and the Word was God" are
convertible terms. That would mean that the Word and God in every respect
are identical. Your example above is not relevant, since "man" is not a
proper name, but the following examples may illustrate the case:
1) Jesus is YHWH.
2) Jesus is the Father.
In 1) the nominative predicate is a proper name, and in 2) the nominative
predicate is a singular noun which is equivalent to a proper name. The only
possible interpretation of the two propositions that I see, is that Jesus
and YHWH are identical in every respect and the same is true with Jesus and
the Father. One
commentator who views the word "God" as I have argued above, is M. J.
Harris. His book "Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference
to Jesus" (1992) is the most thorough treatment of John 1:1 and related
passages of which I am aware. On page 69 Harris says: "But in normal English
usage "God" is a proper noun...Moreover, "the word was God" suggests that
"the Word" and "God" are convertible terms, that the proposition is
reciprocating.". It would be interesting to hear from one or more of the
linguists on the list if there are serious objections to the views of Harris
and myself,
RF:
> 2) That the words are convertible terms and reciprocate is forbidden by
the
> use of preposition in 1:1b (and suggested by the lack of article before
QEOS
> in 1:1c). It is linguistical nonsense to make a text saying that someone
"is
> with" someone else and at the same time is identical with that one.
BH:
Rolf, this is quite amusing, actually. You have just done what you have
stated is linguistically impossible.
RF:
I do not understand what you mean here.
BH:
However, you are introducing an
interpretive rather than a linguistic category here, the term "identical."
I believe that John goes on to demonstrate that the LOGOS shares in the
essential quality of what it means to be QEOS, but also demonstrates that
the LOGOS has certain, shall we say, personal properties which distinguish
him from QEOS as the generically understood hO QEOS. The point here,
however, is that there is nothing inherently impossible about making this
sort of statement, either in Greek or English. The problem is in
understanding what John intends by the statement.
RF:
I respect your right to have your opinion regarding the meaning of John´s
words. However, if "God" in normal English is equivalent to a proper name,
the rendering "and the Word was God" contradicts your explanations above.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Adjunct Faculty & IT Support
The Center for Urban Theological Studies
http://www.cuts.edu
Classics Instructor, The American Academy
http://www.theamericanacademy.net
And my site:
http://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry
Best regards,
Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo
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