[B-Greek] PEI, FEI, XEI, KSI, PSI (was pee or pie)
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 9 09:43:50 EDT 2006
I would think that "this" would obviously refer to the snippet of your post which I copied. No, I'm not attempting to overturn the general pattern of equivalencies. I am, however, suggesting that there might be regional equivalencies which do not agree with the general pattern for which we should be alert. Ahah ! An Aegean listhp -- that illustrates my point. There were regional differences which go beyond what one might term an ideolect.
______________
R Yochanan Bitan Buth <ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
George egrapsa
>Randall,
I'm not convinced that this is true. Just to give one small example from
modern day speech which I have heard myself:
<SNIP>
Shalom George,
XERIN
Your "this" was not clear. If you meant "in every case for every
individual"--Clearly, there is room for idiosyncrasies and deviances, like the kind your grandfather's English "poush" for 'push', and as mentioned in my own quoted footnote.
If by "this" you intended to negate the whole discussion or to suggest that
EI was not being pronounced like I, that is simply not a viable linguistic
option. There are too many substitutions in too many documents. We're
talking thousands, AND we know where the system ended up. Phonologies are not overturned because one person's idiolect does something different for
one word.
For example, you can look through those four papyri letters that were quoted
at the end of my post, as well as many many others if you have any real
doubts, and see if any of those misspellings can be explained as an idiolect
or if instead they belong to a pervasive pattern.
For example, in Loeb, Sel. Papy. 111, besides UGEIAINEIN for UGIAINEIN we
find
GRAFIN for GRAFEIN
GEINWSKEIN for GINWSKEIN
Unlike your stepfather, the changes spread out and fit a spelling pattern
found in thousands of other documents.
In Selected Papyri 113 besides UGIENW (=UGIAINW) we find
OTEI for OTI
In Sel. Papy. 120 besides SAI UGEIAINEIN (=SE UGIAINEIN) we find
NEILOUTI for NILOUTI
PLISTA for PLEISTA
AIKASTHN for EKASTHN
HMAIRAN for HMERAN (these last two are a pair in the text)
SERAPEIDEI for SERAPID(E)I
GEINWSKEIN SAI QELW for GINWSKEIN SE QELW (I want you to know)
OUX HLPIZON for OUK HLPIZON
ANABENIS for ANABAINEIS (!!)
EGO for EGW
AIDUSOPOUMHN for EDUSWPOUMHN
PAIRIPATW for PERIPATW
AIGRAPSA for EGRAPSA
EIMEI for EIMI
DIALAGHTI for DIALLAGHTI
AIMAUTW for EMAUTWi
PAIPAIDEUMAI for PEPAIDEUMAI
AKAIREWS for AKERAIWS
GENESTAI for GENESQAI [this shows the Egyptian retention of hard Teta
(=theta) still in 2nd century]
ANQROPW for ANQRWPW
MHTREI for MHTRI
UEIOU for UIOU
**************
That one papyrus Loeb 120 almost singlehandedly illustrates Roman period
phonology. You might be curious to know that when I read the lists
immediately above it comes out right and correctly pronounced without
conscious processing and with proper meaning. ('cept for my GENESQAI. I use
the theta that was probably first widespread up in the north, around the
Aegean. If Luke had Teta instead of theta, and I agree that we can't know,
then he would hear me as having an Aegean lithp. I can live with that.) It's
also nice to read Swanson's manuscript spelling notes in the apparatus to
his Horizontal line text presentation.
*************
Multiply Loeb 120 by thousands from around the Mediterranean and you begin
to understand why linguists can talk about "systems" without being upset by
a blip of static here or there. All systems have static. People are always
mispronouncing things and miswriting things. The question is "what is the
system that emerges out of the million dots?" How did the language work as a
system? Koine Greek was very very very ... very clearly not pronounced like
Machen or Mounce teach it, not even close.
In KOINH
EI=I, AI=E, W=O, and OI=U (like German umlaut-u)
[plus H, A, OU to round out the vowel phonology]
Since accidently you don't have OI=U illustrated above, let me quote from
Loeb 109
OIEIWI for UIWi
PUHSAS for POIHSAS
PEMSIS MU for PEMPSEIS MOI
Again, after you see a few hundred of these from Rome, Greece, the Dead Sea
and Egypt you have NO DOUBTS. The system is clear. We just accept it.
What's even nicer is that when we pronounce Greek like those ancients, the
modern Greeks recognize it as GREEK! --A little different, yes, but still
Greek to their ears. Now that is a nice "win-win".
AIROSO
Randall Buth
Randall Buth, PhD
Director, Biblical Language Center
www.BiblicalUlpan.org
buth at jerusalemschool.org
and Lecturer, Biblical Hebrew
Rothberg, Hebrew University
ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il
---
B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
B-Greek mailing list
B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
george
gfsomsel
_________
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list