[B-Greek] PEI, FEI, XEI, KSI, PSI (was pee or pie)

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 9 09:43:50 EDT 2006


I would think that "this" would obviously refer to the snippet of your post which I copied.  No, I'm not attempting to overturn the general pattern of equivalencies.  I am, however, suggesting that there might be regional equivalencies which do not agree with the general pattern for which we should be alert.  Ahah !  An Aegean listhp -- that illustrates my point.  There were regional differences which go beyond what one might term an ideolect.
   
  ______________

R Yochanan Bitan Buth <ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
    George egrapsa

>Randall,
I'm not convinced that this is true.  Just to give one small example from
modern day speech which I have heard myself: 
   
  <SNIP>
  

Shalom George, 

XERIN

Your "this" was not clear. If you meant "in every case for every
individual"--Clearly, there is room for idiosyncrasies and deviances, like the kind your grandfather's English "poush" for 'push', and as mentioned in my own quoted footnote.

If by "this" you intended to negate the whole discussion or to suggest that
EI was not being pronounced like I, that is simply not a viable linguistic
option. There are too many substitutions in too many documents. We're
talking thousands, AND we know where the system ended up. Phonologies are not overturned because one person's idiolect does something different for
one word. 

For example, you can look through those four papyri letters that were quoted
at the end of my post, as well as many many others if you have any real
doubts, and see if any of those misspellings can be explained as an idiolect
or if instead they belong to a pervasive pattern. 

For example, in Loeb, Sel. Papy. 111, besides UGEIAINEIN for UGIAINEIN we
find 

GRAFIN for GRAFEIN 

GEINWSKEIN for GINWSKEIN

Unlike your stepfather, the changes spread out and fit a spelling pattern
found in thousands of other documents.

In Selected Papyri 113 besides UGIENW (=UGIAINW) we find

OTEI for OTI

In Sel. Papy. 120 besides SAI UGEIAINEIN (=SE UGIAINEIN) we find

NEILOUTI for NILOUTI

PLISTA for PLEISTA

AIKASTHN for EKASTHN

HMAIRAN for HMERAN (these last two are a pair in the text)

SERAPEIDEI for SERAPID(E)I

GEINWSKEIN SAI QELW for GINWSKEIN SE QELW (I want you to know)

OUX HLPIZON for OUK HLPIZON

ANABENIS for ANABAINEIS (!!)

EGO for EGW

AIDUSOPOUMHN for EDUSWPOUMHN

PAIRIPATW for PERIPATW

AIGRAPSA for EGRAPSA

EIMEI for EIMI

DIALAGHTI for DIALLAGHTI

AIMAUTW for EMAUTWi

PAIPAIDEUMAI for PEPAIDEUMAI

AKAIREWS for AKERAIWS

GENESTAI for GENESQAI [this shows the Egyptian retention of hard Teta
(=theta) still in 2nd century]

ANQROPW for ANQRWPW

MHTREI for MHTRI

UEIOU for UIOU

**************

That one papyrus Loeb 120 almost singlehandedly illustrates Roman period
phonology. You might be curious to know that when I read the lists
immediately above it comes out right and correctly pronounced without
conscious processing and with proper meaning. ('cept for my GENESQAI. I use
the theta that was probably first widespread up in the north, around the
Aegean. If Luke had Teta instead of theta, and I agree that we can't know,
then he would hear me as having an Aegean lithp. I can live with that.) It's
also nice to read Swanson's manuscript spelling notes in the apparatus to
his Horizontal line text presentation.

  *************
  
Multiply Loeb 120 by thousands from around the Mediterranean and you begin
to understand why linguists can talk about "systems" without being upset by
a blip of static here or there. All systems have static. People are always
mispronouncing things and miswriting things. The question is "what is the
system that emerges out of the million dots?" How did the language work as a
system? Koine Greek was very very very ... very clearly not pronounced like
Machen or Mounce teach it, not even close.

In KOINH 

EI=I, AI=E, W=O, and OI=U (like German umlaut-u)

[plus H, A, OU to round out the vowel phonology]



Since accidently you don't have OI=U illustrated above, let me quote from
Loeb 109

OIEIWI for UIWi

PUHSAS for POIHSAS

PEMSIS MU for PEMPSEIS MOI

Again, after you see a few hundred of these from Rome, Greece, the Dead Sea
and Egypt you have NO DOUBTS. The system is clear. We just accept it.

What's even nicer is that when we pronounce Greek like those ancients, the
modern Greeks recognize it as GREEK! --A little different, yes, but still
Greek to their ears. Now that is a nice "win-win".



AIROSO

Randall Buth



Randall Buth, PhD

Director, Biblical Language Center

www.BiblicalUlpan.org

buth at jerusalemschool.org

and Lecturer, Biblical Hebrew

Rothberg, Hebrew University

ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il



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george
gfsomsel
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