[B-Greek] PEI, FEI, XEI, KSI, PSI (was pee or pie)
Randall Buth
randallbuth at gmail.com
Mon Jul 10 13:06:40 EDT 2006
Shalom David,
Thank you for that breath of fresh air.
Schliemann's view came out around the same time as Francois Gouin, a
Latin teacher in France, who wrote on the Series Method (contextual
immersion) that became the indirect grandfather of the Berlitz school.
WHD Rouse was a university student at that time and it wouldn't be
surprising to find out that he was at least partially influenced.
There is a book I haven't seen, but would like to, C Stray, Living
Word: WHD Rouse and the Crisis of Classics in Edwardian England.
Penguin books list this:
"W.H.D. Rouse was one of the great 20th century experts on Ancient
Greece, and headmaster of the Perse School, Cambridge, England, for 26
years. Under his leadership the school became widely known for the
successful teaching of Greek and Latin AS SPOKEN LANGUAGES [caps
mine-rb]. He derived his knowledge of the Greeks not only from his
wide studies of classical literature, but also by travelling
extensively in Greece. He died in 1950."
Of course, I suspect that Rouse himself was using a proto-restored
Attic, rather than a modern pronunciation. "Rouse uses a version of
the tonal accent." The biggest problem that Schliemann, Gouin, Rouse
and others had at the turn of that century was finding teachers who
were willing and capable of doing the right thing.
Schliemann's time estimates, for example, are rather optimistic. 18
months of immersion and training in Greece would have gone a long
stride towards his goal, though even that would have been optimistic.
Last year I visited a high school in Patmos just to see what is being
done on the ground today. It was both encouraging and helpful in
providing a sense of realism. ancient Greek takes some serious work on
the part of students to get it to a high level. However, university
majors do reach a high, passive level. Greek highschool-Greek teachers
do not speak the ancient dialect but they do read it with relative
ease.
I, for one, would heartily approve any school who wanted to implement
Schliemann's advice at a elementary--secondary school level. It is too
late and takes too long at a seminary level.
University would be a coin-toss for me. If only Greek were the
interest, I would recommend the policy. Unfortunately, I want to see
the student fluent in Hebrew, too. With a rigorous, no-holds-barred
Greek program in Israel, or the same-type of Hebrew program in Greece,
it would be possible. (I've actually worked out a class/time
overlapping sequence for a 3-4 program, but it would take an
institution with a remarkable commitment to change to implement such a
farreaching move.)
ERRWSO
Randall Buth
ASPAZETAI SE Brian S
> From: David Miller <dmiller at briercrest.ca>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] PEI, FEI, XEI, KSI, PSI (was pee or pie)
> To: "b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
> <70311EF2CCE3D611AC4100C09F0A1CDC04A44982 at web1.briercrest.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> This debate about Greek pronunciation has been going on for some time.
> Consider Henry Schliemann, writing in 1881:
>
> "I therefore strongly recommend all directors of colleges and
> schools to introduce the method I have followed; to do away with the
> abominable English pronunciation of Greek, which has never been in use
> outside of England; to let children first be taught modern Greek by native
> Greek professors, and only afterwards begin ancient Greek when they can
> speak and write the modern language with fluency, which it can hardly take
> them more than six months to do. The same professors can teach the ancient
> language, and by following my method they will enable intelligent boys to
> master all its difficulties in a year, so that they will not only learn it
> as a living language, but will also understand the ancient classics, and be
> able to write fluently on any subject they are acquainted with.
> "This is no idle theory, but a stubborn fact, which therefore ought
> to be listened to. It is a cruel injustice to inflict for years upon an
> unhappy pupil a language of which, when he leaves college, as a general rule
> he knows hardly more than when he first began to learn it. The causes of
> this miserable result are, in the first place, the arbitrary and atrocious
> pronunciation of Greek usual in England; and in the second place the
> erroneous method employed, according to which the pupils learn to disregard
> the accents entirely, and to consider them as mere impediments, whereas the
> accents constitute a most important auxiliary in learning the language.
> What a happy effect would be produced on general education, and what an
> enormous stimulus would be given to scientific pursuits, if intelligent
> youths could obtain in eighteen months a thorough knowledge of modern Greek,
> and of that most beautiful, most divine, and most sonorous language, which
> was spoken by Homer and Plato, and could learn the latter as a living
> tongue, so as never to forget it!" (Henry Schliemann, Ilios: The City and
> Country of the Trojans [New York: Harper & Brothers, 1881], 15-16; Online:
> http://fax.libs.uga.edu/).
>
> Schliemann's method of learning foreign languages, discussed on pages 9-16,
> makes for fascinating reading.
>
> David Miller, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor of New Testament
> Briercrest College and Seminary
> dmiller at briercrest.ca
>
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--
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il
randallbuth at gmail.com
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