[B-Greek] Genitive in Romans 6:6c
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sat Jul 15 08:14:34 EDT 2006
I certainly don't find anything questionable in the examples cited by
Iver nor in their interpretation. Moreover, after a careful review of
the instances of KATARGEW in the GNT, I think that Iver is right on
target in saying that an "ablatival" usage of the genitive with this
verb is not found among them. Linguistic history is as much a factor
here is semantics and syntax: prepositions have come to be employed
regularly with some verbs and in some contexts when the sense is
ablatival or partitives -- and that's true with the genitive as well
as with the dative -- think of the (surprising -- to one more
familiar with classical Attic) instances of EN + dative that are
instrumental rather than locative.
Text: Rom 6:6 TOUTO GINWSKONTAS, hOTI hO PALAIOS hHMWN ANQRWPOS
SUNESTAURWQH, hINA KATARGHQHi TO SWMA THS hAMARTIAS, TOU MHKETI
DOULEUEIN hHMAS THi hAMARTIAi
" ... since we understand that our old self has been crucified (in
company with Christ) so that our sinful self may cease to function --
so that we are no longer slaves to Sin."
With regard to the verb KATARGEW, I would consider it among those
verbs that are essentially middle (ergative) and it probably should
be lemmatized KATARGOUMAI. The active KATARGEW is essentially the
causative for KATARGOUMAI; KATARGHQHN is simply the aorist of
KATARGOUMAI. It can be Englished as a passive (e.g. "be rendered in
effective") but there's really no difference in meaning from the
intransitive middle "become ineffectual."
On Jul 15, 2006, at 7:50 AM, George F Somsel wrote:
> I find this almost incomprehensible. How can one begin with
> semantics (meaning) before one has first determined what is
> actually being said (syntax).
>
> ______________
>
>
> Iver Larsen <iver at larsen.dk> wrote:
> <SNIP>
>
> I find it helpful to start from semantics rather than just syntax.
> I make a distinction between primary semantic roles
> and secondary roles. Secondary roles are additional and optional,
> while primary roles are required, although they can be
> left implicit in some contexts. Let me illustrate by an example of
> a verb that requires the genitive case for a primary
> role,
> such as METECW:
> BAGD explains this verb as "share, have a share, participate w.
> gen. of the thing in or of someth."
> Compare:
> 1 Co 10:21 OU DUNASQE TRAPEZHS KURIOU METECEIN KAI TRAPEZHS DAIMONIWN
> (You cannot share [in] the Lord's table and (also) [in] demons' table)
> The agent is "you" and the patient is one or other of these
> "tables" - a metonymy)
>
> Heb 5:13 PAS GAR hO METECWN GALAKTOS (for every one who is drinking
> milk)
> The agent is PAS and the patient is milk (in genitive, governed by
> the META of the verb).
>
> 1 Cor 10:30 EI EGW CARITI METECW
> (if I eat/partake with thanksgiving)
> The agent is "I" and the patient is not specified, but implied from
> the previous context. The dative CARITI adds a
> secondary
> semantic role, indicating an attendant circumstance or manner (BDF
> 198: "associative dative"). It is equivalent to a
> preposition with EN.
>
> There is a so-called "genitive of separation" (BDF 180), but BDF
> says that this "has been driven out for the most part
> by APO and EK." APALLOTRIOW (Eph 2:12, 4:18) is an example. It is a
> small group of verbs that take such genitives and
> most of them have APO as part of the verb. KATARGEW does not belong
> to this group, and there is no way the genitive
> hAMARTIAS in Rom 6.6 can be considered a primary role for the verb.
>
> I hope this clarifies a bit,
>
> Iver Larsen
>
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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